In this episode of Hebrew Voices, Nephilim and Demons in the Book of Enoch, Nehemia talks with Dr. Miryam Brand about the Book of Watchers, which is another name for the first 36 chapters of 1 Enoch. The intrigue begins in Genesis 6:1-4 when “sons of God” got together with “daughters of men” and “Nephilim” seem to have been the result—a passage Nehemia considers the most difficult in the Tanakh. The Book of Watchers is an attempt by ancient Jews to explain this mysterious passage in the Torah.
Gordon and Brand tread through centuries of biblical and extra-biblical literature to exposit how original and subsequent readers have viewed the Watchers. Brand explains the “distancing” from God that took place in the Second Temple period as evidenced by the increased focus on the angelic world. We also learn that early Christianity was aware of the Watchers; the epistle of Jude quotes from the Book of the Watchers and Justin Martyr also addressed the issue in his Dialogues with Trypho (chapter 79).
If Genesis 6:1-4 has ever caused you to scratch your head, this episode will help you approach it in a more informed way as Gordon and Brand explore context and usage for “watchers,” “angels,” “sons of God,” “awake ones,” “giants,” “mighty men,” "Nephilim," and “Elohim.”
The image at the top of this page is of a famous hoax, expressing a Photoshop-artist's rendition of what the bones of Nephilim might look like.
Transcript You are listening to Hebrew Voices with Nehemia Gordon. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. Benjamin Netanyahu: Le ma’an Zion lo ekhesheh, u’l’ma’an Yerushalayim lo eshkot. (For Zion’s sake I will not be silent, and for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest. Isaiah 62:1) Nehemia: This is Nehemia Gordon with Hebrew Voices. I am back once again with Dr. Miryam T. Brand, who has a PhD from New York University. Her website is understandingsin.com, and she has a book, Evil Within and Without, and a chapter in another book called Outside the Bible, a 90-plus page commentary on the Book of Enoch. We began last time, wanting to talk about the Book of the Watchers, and we spent so much time talking just about the Book of Enoch and the introduction, we never got to the Book of Watchers, which is, I believe, the first 36 chapters of the Book of Enoch. So we’re going to talk about that today. So Enoch consists of five books, right? Miryam: Yes. Nehemia: Or you said maybe even six, depending on how you count them. Miryam: Yeah, but for the most part, it’s five. Nehemia: But five clearly delineated books. The first one is the Book of the Watchers, which is quoted in the Epistle of Jude. By the way, that section in Jude is itself a quote from Deuteronomy 33, and probably a commentary on Deuteronomy 33. But let’s not get into that. Talk to me about the Book of the Watchers. Who are Watchers, what are Watchers? Miryam: The Watchers… why don’t I start with talking about Genesis chapter 6 verses 1 to 4? Nehemia: Okay! [laughing] We’re never going to get to Enoch. It’s okay, Genesis is more interesting. And I’ve actually said in my earlier series, Torah Pearls, which was a weekly discussion on the Torah, that this is to me, the most difficult passage in the entire Tanach. I have no idea what this is talking about. It sounds like it’s talking about angels coming down from heaven and having sex with women, with human beings, and that’s how it was interpreted by 1 Enoch, right? Miryam: Yeah, it’s pretty much. Certainly, what’s interesting about the Book of Watchers, I mean, we could talk about what the section may have meant in its context, but there were certain things that were very interesting to, say, Second Temple thinkers, about this little excerpt where you have Bnei Elohim who go and mate with human women. Nehemia: That’s Genesis 6 verses 1 to 4. It talks there about “bnei Elohim”, the “sons of God”, which are understood by most people to be angels. All right, so talk about that. Miryam: In our last episode together, you mentioned how there’s a traditional interpretation of Elohim as judges in Exodus, so the traditional interpretation became that these were judges who overstepped their bounds. Nehemia: Human judges. Miryam: Human judges. Nehemia: That’s something that the people would find what, in Rabbinical literature, for example? Miryam: Yes, yeah. And there’s a Christian interpretation which had to do with that these were people who were overstepping their… They were the Sethites, if I remember correctly, descendants of Seth. But if we move back to… what the section seems to be explaining in its context is, where do these heroes of old come from? If you actually just read the section… Nehemia: So, read us that part. What are you talking about, “the heroes of old”? Miryam: I’m just going to read the English. “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair. And they took them wives whomsoever they chose.” Now, sons of God, they’re bnei Elohim. “And the LORD said, ‘My spirit shall not abide in man forever, for that he also is flesh. Therefore shall his days be 120 years.’ The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. The same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.” Now, this is very confusing… Nehemia: No clue what that’s talking about, angels or spirit beings having sex with human women - what?! Miryam: Then it says, “The Nephilim were in the earth in those days.” Now, the standard way that people said is, “Oh, okay. It’s the Nephilim who were born of these…” Nehemia: Even though it doesn’t clearly say that. Miryam: It doesn’t clearly say that. So who were the Nephilim? If you look in Numbers, the Nephilim refers to the giants, they’re giants. So that’s how we know they’re giants. Nehemia: Who were still around in the time of Moses. Miryam: Right. Nehemia: Or they’re mentioned, at least. Miryam: They’re mentioned. But this is an interpretation that they’re already doing very early on. They’re saying, “Who were the Nephilim? What does that mean?” So on the one hand, Nephilim seems to be giants. On the other hand, Nephilim, if you look at the root, means “fallen ones”. Nehemia: From the word “naphal”, to fall. Miryam: Naphal. That’s also in their back of their heads. Then what the section ends with is that they bore children to them, “The same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.” So what you can read it as, and the way I read it in context, is this is explaining… I like to read the Bible and say, “What did the ancient people first make of the Bible?” I do believe it’s eternal, and we can all find continuing messages in it. But what were ancient Israelites…? Nehemia: What’s the original, historical context? Miryam: Yeah, what were ancient Israelites dealing with? The answer is, you’ve got all these stories of demi-gods and these great heroes, and all this stuff. And what this story is telling you is, “Yeah, you know what? They had some bit of divine in them, but they just lived 120 years, they’re not gods. There’s this kind of limit on them. This is where they come from, but in the final analysis, they’re just humans. So don’t make them into gods.” That’s the way I read it in context. However, if you really read it in context, you realize that where this passage comes in the Bible, it comes in-between Noah and his sons. Right before that, it mentions Noah, Noah’s sons, Shem, Ham and Yefet. And right after this little story, we have “And the LORD saw that the wickedness of men was great in the earth.” So that’s also… the very first interpreters are going to be like, “Wait. Something happened that caused wickedness. What happened? It was this mating.” Nehemia: So the juxtaposition of this being sandwiched in between Noah and “the earth is full of wickedness” would suggest to some readers that this was the source of the wickedness. Miryam: Right. Nehemia: And that’s what happens in the Book of Watchers. Miryam: It’s one of the things that happens in the Book of Watchers. The Book of Watchers is actually a mixing of at least three different stories about the Watchers. Nehemia: Tell us about those stories. First, what are Watchers? Let’s start with that. Miryam: Oh, okay. Nehemia: Again, we’re talking about the first Book of Enoch chapters 1 through 36, or something like that. So who are these Watchers? What are Watchers? Miryam: What are the Watchers? In general, when you see Watchers, what it means is those bnei Elohim who mated with women. That’s what it’s referring to. Nehemia: [laughing] Bnei Elohim who mated with women. Miryam: Yeah. Nehemia: That’s a technical term there. Miryam: [laughing] Yeah, right. Nehemia: They mated with women, okay. All right, go on. Miryam: I try to put it in a very basic way. But sometimes they actually just refer to angels. There are places where Watchers simply refer to angels, and I mean Watchers, it’s a translation of “Irin”, the Aramaic Irin, which refers to angels. Now, we find that in Daniel. We also find it once at Qumran, the term Irin. It’s a standard term for angels, and the question is, why is Irin a standard term for angels? It means “awake ones”, and there’s an idea…. Nehemia: Really? Is that the standard explanation? Miryam: That’s the closest we can come. In other words, we’re not really sure. We’re not really sure where the word Irin comes from. We’re not absolutely sure. One of the possibilities is that it actually comes from saying that “they’re awake”. So if you say “Watchers”, the word watchers is a translation of Irin, right? Watchers in Greek, egrḗgoroi and in Ge’ez it’s deguhan, and they both mean Watchers or Guardians, and that’s a translation of the word “Ir”, the term for angels, and that’s in Daniel. In Qumran it’s not in Aramaic, it’s actually in Hebrew. Nehemia: And what is the word in Hebrew, Irim? Miryam: It’s the same thing, because you say Irim with a Mem instead of irin with a Nun. Nehemia: This is very interesting, and this is just me throwing in my… Go ahead. Miryam: I’m going to finish the word. It may come from this tradition that angels don’t sleep. In the parables of Enoch, angels are called “those who do not sleep” several times. Four times, they’re called “those who do not sleep”. Nehemia: So at the very least, when they heard the word Irim or Irin, which is the word translated as “Watchers”, they said, “Oh, it’s from the Hebrew word ir,” which means, “to be awake”. That’s how they interpreted it. Miryam: We don’t know. We’re trying to figure it out. The word for angels… there was a standard word for angels, Irin or Irim. Nehemia: By the way, in Hebrew the standard word is “malach”, and this is an Aramaic word for “angels… ” Miryam: Right, which is also found again in Hebrew form. Nehemia: …in Hebrew text. It first appears in Daniel 4:10, which in the English is 4:13, and then twice more in Daniel 4:14 and 4:20, which in English is 4:17 and 4:23. So it appears three times in the Book of Daniel, in Aramaic, not in the Hebrew section of Daniel. And in Daniel it just means “angel”. In other words, in Daniel there’s no implication as far we know, of angels who made it with women. [laughing] Right? Miryam: Right. That’s why I’m saying that it seems to be a standard term for angel. And when we try to figure out, “Why is it a standard term for angel…?” Nehemia: So I have my theory, which is that you have this – and I won’t go too much into this – but in Hebrew you have the Tzadi, which often in Aramaic is represented by an Ayin, like eretz and arah. And so ir in Hebrew would be the equivalent of tzir, which is emissary. Miryam: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, right. Nehemia: That’s probably the source of it. But then certainly it sounds like in the literature you’re talking about in later times they said, “Oh, ir. That’s…” Miryam: “Those people who are awake.” Nehemia: “Those who are always awake and watching.” Interesting, okay. Miryam: And we do have sometimes Watchers used for regular angels, but usually when Watchers is used, it’s referring specifically to these angels who… Nehemia: Of Genesis 6. Miryam: Yeah, of Genesis 6. Nehemia: So how does the Book of Watchers, the first section of 1 Enoch, how does it understand these Watchers? Miryam: Apparently, it mixes three different traditions. One is that an angel named Shemihaza got together with a bunch of angels and they wanted to mate with women, not just because they thought they were beautiful, but also because they wanted children. And they have this whole plot, and that’s what they do, and they get punished and their children are killed, and that has pretty much nothing to do with the flood. It’s an explanation of that little story, where this is what they want and then they get punished. There’s another tradition where an angel called “Asael” comes down and teaches all sorts of forbidden knowledge to people. That forbidden knowledge in that case is not mysterious knowledge - that’s also in Enoch, we’ll get to that in a second - but that knowledge is, he teaches men all sorts of crafts of warfare, and how to make weapons. Nehemia: And this is all in the 1 Enoch, right? Miryam: Yes. Nehemia: In the first section, okay. Miryam: He teaches women how to make jewelry and eye shadow and makeup. So you’ve got the sins of violence and lust. Nehemia: So this is this wicked knowledge, how to make eye shadow. [laughing]
Miryam: Well, you mix violence with lust and you get bad things, is kind of the idea. So you’ve got those two, and then that sets off all sorts of sinning, and then that explains the flood. Then that’s connected to the flood. Now, mixed with that, there’s another tradition whereby the angels teach humans not just standard knowledge like warfare and beautifying things for women, but also magic and really, really forbidden knowledge, and that that is wicked. So that’s also mixed in a little there. So what you have is one strain which really doesn’t connect the Watchers with the flood so much, the other strain does connect the Watchers to the flood. However, the question in Enoch – and this really depends on how you translate certain verses of Enoch – is, does Enoch see evil continuing wickedness as coming from the Watchers in some way? And the answer is, “Well, of course, if they learned warfare, if they learned forbidden knowledge, then yeah, there’s an ongoing wickedness that’s the fault of these angels.” But it’s not quite as clear as, for example, in the Book of Jubilees. In the Book of Jubilees, it makes it very clear that what happens is that the descendants of the Watchers, their bodies are killed, because those are human bodies, but their spirits cannot really be destroyed, because they’re angelic, they’re divine. And so their spirits become evil demonic spirits that cause sin… Nehemia: Don’t we have that also here in 1 Enoch, there’s something there…? Miryam: It depends on the translation. Nehemia: Oh, how you translate it, okay. Miryam: The ongoing effect of the Watchers really depends on translation, and there are certain very specific verses that can be translated one way or the other. But actually, I shouldn’t say that. I should say, later on in Enoch yes, yes. So there’s this idea that the Watchers cause a continuing sin, and you have the spirits of the watchers, or the spirits either of the Watchers… There are traditions that the spirits of the Watchers or the spirits of their children, the giants, cause an ongoing sin. The way it works in Enoch - remember I said that each book is built of different little pieces. So 6:1 to 11:2 in Enoch is its own little piece, and it tells the different traditions of the Watchers. Now, that little piece does not necessarily explain ongoing sins so much. What I just told you, that’s all about 6:1 to 11:2. In other words, are are three traditions of the Watchers that are all interpretations of the Watchers’ story, some connected to the flood, some not. Nehemia: I don’t think you gave us the third one. The first one was, Shemihaza had children, those children were killed. The second one is they taught the knowledge they shouldn’t have had. And what’s the third one? Miryam: The third is also connected to knowledge, which is why I didn’t say it… The third is just additions of things like magic. Nehemia: Oh, so one is they taught them how to make metal, which is interesting, because it… Miryam: And medicine, by the way. Nehemia: Right, well that’s interesting, because in the Torah it talks about a man who learned how to make metal, and here it was angels who taught them how to do it. Miryam: That’s because of warfare. The idea is it’s not the metal so much as making weapons that’s evil. Nehemia: Okay, so the angels taught man how to make weapons, that’s number two, or the Watchers… Miryam: Weapons, and women how to adorn themselves. Nehemia: And the third one is they actually them magic. Miryam: Magic and medicine. So here, medicine is actually considered bad. It’s classed with sorcery and charms. Nehemia: Right, so this is evil that they introduced into the world, and that’s really interesting because in Jewish magic – and there is such a thing – it’s forbidden by the Torah, but there’s a whole literature of Jewish magic, it’s very closely related to calling upon these different angels and summoning them up. Like, I think of Sefer HaRazim, the Book of Secrets, which is probably a little bit later, where they’re summoning all these different angels to perform their bidding, and this is forbidden by the Torah. Basically, it’s this form of trying to harness the power of angels and supernatural beings to do your own will. That’s how Judaism approached magic, and actually in a forbidden way, did it. Miryam: Yeah, there’s a whole class, you could go on, and on, and on about the different ways, and what divides a magic incantation from a prayer. What makes something a prayer, and what makes something an incantation? A lot of times, an incantation is calling on the power of something against something else. So even if you’re calling on the power of God, if you’re just saying the name of God in order to call a power, as opposed to addressing God, you’re saying, “God, please help me.” If instead of doing that you’re saying, “I’m going to use the name of God against these demons…” Nehemia: That’s interesting. Miryam: So then you can say, it might not be classed as magic, but we would certainly class it as an incantation as opposed to a prayer. People who work with incantations and prayer, they come across these kinds of questions all the time. Nehemia: It sounds like a whole separate discussion for a whole different episode. Let’s get into the Watchers. So the Watchers are doing these different things. Miryam: Right. And then we have the next section that ties it into the Enoch. Because we have this whole story of the Watchers, it’s disconnected from Enoch. Nehemia: Yeah, what does it have to do with Enoch? Miryam: Yeah, it has nothing to do with Enoch, right? Then we have the tie-in, and the tie-in is that they ask Enoch to defend them in the heavenly court. Nehemia: So these Watchers, these angels, are asking Enoch to pray for them, essentially. Miryam: Not just to pray, but to represent them almost as a lawyer. And there are people who have interpreted this section as connecting to certain practices of law. They actually want him to defend them in heavenly court. Nehemia: So he’s supposed to go up to heaven and defend them before the throne of God? Miryam: Before God. And God’s like, “Ha-ha, no way.” And He doesn’t hold Enoch responsible, but He says to Enoch, “You tell them this. You tell them, ‘No way.’” I’m reading from chapter 15, the very beginning of chapter 15. “And He answered me and said to me with His voice, ‘Here. Do not be afraid, Enoch, you righteous man and scribe of righteousness. Come hither and hear My voice, and go say to the Watchers of heaven who sent you to petition on their behalf, ‘You ought to be petitioned on behalf of men, not men on behalf of you.’” And this is a whole irony, that these angels totally failed in their job. This tradition that angels are supposed to be petitioned on behalf of men, this also connects, again, to what we were talking about before - incantations versus prayers. It seems to be legitimate. You can ask an angel to petition on your behalf. Now, in modern Judaism, this is a whole question, can you do that? But you can ask an angel to petition on your behalf. That’s not the same as doing magic. So there’s this whole question whether that’s… Nehemia: Can we dwell on this for a second? This is really interesting, because when I read this, this was the most surprising... There were two things here, really surprising. One is that these angelic beings needed someone to intercede on their behalf, that they couldn’t just come and stand before God. Because when I read the Tanakh, I don’t see any reason why I can’t - and this is my understanding of the Tanakh – that I can come and stand before God and ask for forgiveness, and that I would need to ask an angel to pray for me… Miryam: Yeah, you would absolutely not. Nehemia: Where is that in the Tanakh? That’s number one. And number two, the angels repented and their repentance was rejected. That’s another thing. I don’t know of anywhere in the Tanakh where someone repents and it’s not good enough, even with the intercessor for them… Miryam: Well, no. First of all, I’ll address your last question first. It’s a general thing that repentance… Realize that, for example, David repents, and he honestly repents – and he still gets punished. Nehemia: So there are consequences. Miryam: There are consequences. He repents, so we could say he’s repented, except that he still gets punished. It’s the idea that repentance can completely wipe out a sin we see in Ezekiel, and we see to a certain extent in Micha. But actually, if we look at how sin and punishment work – and I’ll address that eventually in my podcast, it’s going to take me a lot to get to that. Nehemia: Understandingsin.com is Miryam’s new podcast, and she’s going to have some amazing teachings on these topics. Guys, go to iTunes and subscribe. Go on your Android, subscribe to her podcast. You can get this as she puts these out. You’ll get these teachings. There’s some great stuff we’re not getting to today. Miryam: Thanks. Nehemia: Sin. Miryam: Right. I’m always talking about sin, [laughing] so that doesn’t really… But sin and punishment. Nehemia: Sin and repentance. Miryam: Sin and repentance. The way repentance works, and the idea that repentance can completely wipe out a sin and its punishment, is something we see, and Ezekiel keeps on saying, “You don’t believe that it works that way, and I’m telling you it works that way.” Nehemia: That’s Ezekiel 18 and Ezekiel 33. Miryam: Why does he have to say that? Because to the modern mind, and I have to say this, to the modern mind sin is not something real. We don’t think of it as doing any kind of physical damage. We think of it as something kind of, “Oh, yeah. We can just wipe it away.” But in the ancient mind, sin does actual damage. If you think of it in terms of like if you murder someone and you say, “Oh, I’m so sorry.” The person’s not coming back to life. So it’s the same sort of thing if you sin, you’ve done actual damage. Can you just wipe that away? Well, Ezekiel’s saying that yes, you can. But in a lot of the Bible there’s this idea that you can kind of… when it says, “God stretches things out over generations,” that’s actually a good thing. Because God doesn’t punish you all at once, right? You sinned, and God stretches out the punishment so that you can handle it. Because there’s this idea of, you can’t just wipe it away. So there are these two ideas. Now, if we go back to what you said about prayer in the Bible, you’re absolutely right. In fact, there’s a great book which is a lecture series by Moshe Greenberg, where he talks about how the way prayer works in the Bible – not liturgical prayer, not Psalms so much – but when anyone prays in the Bible, there’s this idea that anyone can call on God in his own language, in his own words. That language changes according to the character. Like, Jacob has the wheel-and-deal way of talking with God, whereas Shimshon, Samson, has this very direct... He’s a simple guy and he talks directly to God. Nehemia: So this is a fundamentally different idea in a sense, that… Miryam: Very common in the Second Temple period. Nehemia: …in the Second Temple, that you need angels to intercede on your behalf. You pray to the angels, and… Miryam: You may not need, because there’s absolutely… Nehemia: Or maybe they help. Miryam: …they help. They help, because we’ve got lots of prayers where people are addressing God directly, but there is… Nehemia: That’s completely absent from the Tanakh, that you’re praying to angels. Miryam: But because what we have in the Second Temple period is we have this kind of distancing of God, this idea of God is so awesome, God is so amazing, we need these beings in-between. And there’s an idea the same way with pronouncing the name of God. Yes, so we have the Second… Nehemia: There’s a big smile on my face. We’re not going to get into that topic! [laughing] That’s one of my favorite topics. Miryam: And I’m not going to get completely into it, but we see a real distancing from pronouncing the name of God, of writing the name of God, because God is so awesome that we can’t even approach Him. Now, there is absolutely direct prayer to God. But there’s more of a recognition of the distance from God. Also, that’s paired with a much greater recognition of the angelic world. All of a sudden - we see this in Daniel also - angels have names. Whereas if you look at the Pentateuch, the Five Books of Moses, angels don’t have names. They’re just angels. Angels are around, but they don’t… Nehemia: And he even asks the angel the name, and he says, “It’s hidden. You can’t know what it is. It’s not for you to know.” Miryam: Angels don’t have names. People have names. But certainly in the Second Temple period, we were starting to name angels, we were having this very active whole family of angels. Nehemia: You mentioned the angel called Shemihaza, and the only angels I know from the Tankch are Michael and Gavriel, Michael and Gabriel. Miryam: You know them from the Book of Daniel. Nehemia: You’re saying after the Book of Daniel, or after the Tanach, then you all of a sudden have a whole long list of angels, in Enoch. Miryam: And recognizing that from an academic perspective, the Book of Daniel is dated to the Second Temple period, not like it’s traditionally dated. Nehemia: I think even traditionally it’s in the Second Temple period. Miryam: Yes, well in the tradition… Nehemia: I mean, the very beginning of the Second Temple. Miryam: Traditionally, Daniel’s supposed to be… Nehemia: He mentioned Cyrus, and the fall of Babylon. Miryam: Right, so Daniel’s supposed to be after… he’s presented as in the time of Nebuchadnezzar, right? So he’s presented as after the Babylonian exile. Nehemia: In other words, the traditional interpretation would be some time in the early 400s or late 500s, and the academic position is that it allegedly was written in 166 BC, which I completely don’t believe. But that’s a whole different discussion. [laughing]
Miryam: And the traditional dating of Daniel is of course why Daniel is in the Hebrew Bible. Because the Hebrew Bible is… Nehemia: It really is the word of God. Miryam: The canonization. No, no, but the canonization of the Hebrew Bible, if we distinguish between the canonization of the Hebrew Bible and the Septuagint, the Books that make it into the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint includes many important Jewish works. But what makes it into the Hebrew we call the Judean Bible are books that are traditionally dated to before the end of prophesy, which is Chagai, Zecharia, and Malachi. Nehemia: Malachi, yeah. Miryam: Malachi, yeah. Nehemia: So basically, Malachi is understood by Jews to be the last Prophet in Judea, you’re saying. Let’s move on to the Book of Watchers. Back to the Book of Watchers. Can we talk about chapter 15? Miryam: Okay, so we’ll talk about 15. Nehemia: Chapter 15 verse 8, because this is incredible. Enoch is praying for people and interceding like a lawyer, and he says, “No! The angels should be lawyers for the humans, not the humans for the lawyers.” [laughing] Wow. Miryam: “The Watchers on behalf of the men, not men on behalf of you. Why have you left the high, holy and eternal heaven and lain with the women, and become unclean with the daughters of men, and taken wives for yourselves and done as the sons of men, and begotten giant sons?” the Nephilim. “And you were spiritual, holy, living an eternal life. But you became unclean upon the women and begat children through the blood of flesh, and lusted after the blood of men, and produced flesh and blood as they do who die and are destroyed.” In other words, “You were immortal, but you produced children just like mortal people. And for this reason, I gave them wives.” Nehemia: This is, He’s speaking to the Watchers? Miryam: He’s speaking to the Watchers. This is God telling Enoch to say this to the Watchers. Nehemia: [laughing] Triangular communication. Go on. Miryam: “And for this reason I gave them wives.” In other words, “I gave them mortal wives, namely that they might sow seed in them, and that children might be born…” Nehemia: Wait, wait, wait. Who’s given mortal wives? The humans? Miryam: He says, “You guys, you Watchers,” He says, “You angels, you went and you had children with wives, just like mortal men, just like those who die and are destroyed. And the whole reason I gave mortal men the ability to have children is because they die and are destroyed. They need to be able to have children. Children might be born by them that thus deeds might be done on the earth. They can’t die out. They’re just mortals, so they need to have children. But you formerly were spiritual, living an eternal, immortal life for all the generations of the world. For this reason, I did not arrange wives for you, because the dwelling for spiritual ones is in heaven.” It’s actually double. On the one hand, you live forever, and also you live in heaven where you’re not supposed to have… Nehemia: So basically, these Watchers who were angelic beings, messed up by having human children. Miryam: Yeah, human children. Nehemia: Again, that seems to be the peshat, the plain meaning of Genesis 6, 1 through 4, which is why I say I don’t understand what that means. I can’t believe that. I have trouble believing – this is me personally. That’s why I say it’s one of the most difficult passages in the Bible… Miryam: It is a difficult passage. Nehemia: …if not the most difficult. So basically what they were doing is saying, “You’re right, Nehemia. It’s difficult. Let’s tell you the whole story behind it.” That’s basically what the Book of Enoch does, is, they had the same problem I have, and so they decided to elaborate and say, “You know what? This is exactly what happened, exactly what you thought. That is what happened.” Miryam: Now we’re getting to the punch. “And now the giants who were born from spirits and flesh will be called ‘evil spirits’ upon the earth, and on the earth will be their dwelling.” Nehemia: So these Nephilim - their father was an angel, their mother was a human being, and these Nephilim are now evil spirits? Miryam: Yeah, because you can kill their body, but their spirits are from the angels. Nehemia: Woah! Oh, wow! Miryam: They’re this unholy mix. And that’s why they’re called, we have some… they call them “bastards, mamzerim”. Now, a halachic mamzer, a mamzer according to Jewish law, a bastard according to Jewish law, is not the child of an unwed mother. It’s the child… Nehemia: That’s what it is in Christianity. Miryam: Right. It’s the child of an illicit union. In other words, if a boy marries his aunt, the child will be a bastard. Nehemia: Let’s make it simpler. If a man marries his sister, the child is a mamzer. Miryam: Right. Nehemia: Or what they translate in English as “bastard”. Or if woman has a child from a man who’s not her husband. Miryam: Right, if she’s married… Nehemia: A married woman. Her husband’s off to war, and he comes back a year later and there’s a baby, that baby’s called a “mamzer”, a bastard. Miryam: Yes. So here, they produce something that’s an illicit union. It’s an illicit union between… Nehemia: And it uses that word in 1 Enoch, at least in English. We don’t have the Hebrew. Miryam: Yes, it’s actually pretty clear that it was, because in the Ethiopic, it uses a transliteration of the Hebrew. Nehemia: Of the Hebrew word “mamzer”? Miryam: Yes. Nehemia: Wow. So this is an amazing concept - that the source of evil spirits in the world are essentially the souls, if we can call it, of these Nephilim. After they die, then they become evil spirits that roam the earth. Miryam: Yes. Nehemia: Is that what Enoch is saying? So we definitely don’t have that in the Tanakh. Miryam: Right. Nehemia: Meaning, in the Tanakh we do have this idea of “ruach ra’ah”, an evil spirit. It’s in 1 Kings 22. Miryam: Yes, but it’s very limited, and it seems to describe some kind of depression, or insanity, or anger. Nehemia: Well, no, no, no, in 1 Kings 22 it’s some sort of an angel that goes, and he’s… Miryam: Oh, you’re talking about… sorry… Nehemia: In Michaihu. Miryam: Excuse me, I was thinking of… Nehemia: Right, with Saul. Miryam: With Saul. Nehemia: With Saul, some kind of a depression, an insanity. Let’s say it’s some kind of spirit being, but it’s something that God sends in order to perform a certain purpose. These are rogue evil spirits who aren’t… I don’t know, they’re roaming the earth, causing trouble. Miryam: They’re rogue evil spirits. Nehemia: Yeah, evil spirits. I’m reading a different translation, verse 9, “Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies because they are born from men. And from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin.” And this part’s in brackets - “they shall be evil spirits on earth and evil spirits shall they be called.” Wow. And it says in verse 11, “And the spirits of the giants afflict, depress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble. They take no food. But nevertheless, hunger and thirst and cause offenses. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men, and against women, because they have proceeded from them.” Wow! This is a completely new concept, at least, I think, from a Tanakh perspective. Miryam: Right, from a Tanakh perspective it is, yeah. Nehemia: But in a sense, it’s not a new concept, because whoever wrote that, to him, evil spirits were a fact, and he had to explain where those evil spirits came from. Wow. Can we translate what we’re reading here in modern terms as demons? Miryam: I think, yes. I think we can translate them as demons. And then the question is, are they hurting people? Are they also causing them to sin? Or are they just hurting people? That’s another question. That depends on how you translate each of these words, whether they do wrong, or corrupt, attack, fight, break on the earth. But then afterwards, you have the flood. That’s a way of explaining of the flood, and a way of explaining the sudden wickedness of people, but they’re certainly explaining where demons come from. These are harming demons. Again, Lilith as a demon, she exists as a demonic figure in the Bible without any explanation. Just the name, Lilith. Nehemia: And we have no idea what it means. Miryam: We have no idea, and that’s a continuing term. In the Talmud, it’s really pretty vague also about Lilith. As far as I know, the first real explanation of Lilith – and I’ll look more into this – is in the alphabet of Ben Sira, which kind of a satirical work. Nehemia: Okay, we’re off topic now, and we’ve got to wrap this up. Miryam: [laughing] Sorry! Nehemia: Let’s get back to these evil spirits in the Book of Enoch. By the way, one thing that’s really interesting is that when it talks about the Tree of Knowledge in the Book of Enoch, it has a description of that. In the Tanakh it’s the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, and actually in the Book of Enoch, if I’m understanding correctly, it’s called the “Tree of Knowledge whose holy fruit they eat and know great wisdom.” Miryam: Isn’t that amazing?! Nehemia: It’s completely different! Instead of knowing good and evil, you just get great knowledge. Maybe that’s because evil comes from these evil spirits. I don’t know. Miryam: Certainly, partly it’s interesting that they don’t pick up on the fact that clearly they’ve done a bad thing when they do it… Nehemia: Who’s done a bad thing? Miryam: That Adam and Eve have done a bad thing by eating from it in the Bible, I’m talking just according to the plain meaning of the Bible without any special interpretation. Nehemia: Don’t they? Because they’re hiding? Miryam: Well, they’re hiding because they’re naked. Nehemia: They know they got caught. Miryam: They know they’re naked and they’re ashamed, if you believe Adam. It could be they just know that they’re caught, right? But he’s like, “Oh, but I know we’re naked.” There are all sorts of things. They did the wrong thing. It’s clear they did the wrong thing, in the Bible. You know that in my view, the Adam and Eve story in its context does not explain the origin of sin. Nehemia: You’re actually going to have on your podcast, understandingsin.com... Miryam: It’s the very first episode. [laughing]
Nehemia: Wait, understandingsin.com, you’re going to have this new podcast, and the first episode talks about what, now? Miryam: Adam and Eve and the story in its plain meaning in the Bible, of what that story is actually saying. Nehemia: And you’re saying it’s not original sin, based on the original Hebrew context? Miryam: Exactly. Nehemia: Wow, I can’t wait to listen to that episode, that’s really cool. I think we’re going to leave people with that little teaser to go to undestandingsin.com and sign up for Miryam’s podcast. You can do that on iTunes, or your favorite podcast app on your Android. And you’re going to be talking in much more detail about all of these topics. Miryam: I hope so. Nehemia: Yeah, this is exciting, guys. This has been a really brief, really brief discussion on the Book of Enoch. We hardly got into it. We didn’t even cover all of chapters 1 through 36, which is the.... Miryam: Surprise, surprise. [laughing]
Nehemia: Isn’t that incredible? Which is the Book of the Watchers, and there’s a whole literature on Watchers, and a whole discussion on Watchers in the Dead Sea Scrolls and stuff like that. This is some exciting stuff, guys. There are a lot of things going on. Can I just read one little quote here? Because some people might say, “What do I care about Watchers?” So there’s this great discussion, one of the early books in the 2nd century is Dialogue With Trypho by Justin Martyr, who was a Christian, and as far as we know, the first dialog between Jews and Christians about their faith. Of course, we’re hearing it from the Christian side. But the Jewish side really rings true in some ways. This is from dialog 79, where Trypho, the Jew - who some people say, by the way, is Rabbi Tarphon - he says to Justin, “The utterances of God are holy, but your expositions are mere contrivances, as is plain from what has been explained by you. Nay, even blasphemy,” as this Jew says, “For you assert that angels sinned and revolved from God.” And so to Trypho, who hears Christian doctrine, he says, “This is utter nonsense. It’s blasphemy. We Jews don’t say those things.” And the interesting thing about 1 Enoch is, in 1 Enoch we do have these concepts, meaning the Christians didn’t pull this out of thin air, they were continuing something that existed in Jewish literature, even though clearly not all the Jews accepted it, because Trypho doesn’t seem to know about it, or at least to accept it. Miryam: Right. And it’s kind of rejected in the continuance of the Jewish tradition. It pops up again a little bit more in mediaeval times. Nehemia: Interesting. So even if Trypho knows about it, he explicitly rejects it. Miryam: Well, Trypho probably doesn’t know. Trypho probably doesn’t know about it. Nehemia: Okay. But we find it because these books have survived. They survived in the Ethiopean Church, and we find fragments in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And so these things that Justin are saying, this Christian, it comes from one form of Judaism which really didn’t become the dominant form of Judaism. And that’s really interesting. It gives us the context for things that are going on in early Christianity. And imagine that. This always blew my mind. How does the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch end up in Ethiopia? How does it happen? How does that happen? I mean, the mainstream Judaism of Trypho, if you call it that, didn’t accept this book, but somehow it ends up in Ethiopia. Then you have these things in the Cairo Geniza, like the Damascus... It’s unbelievable how these things happen. We could do a whole episode on that. Thank you, Dr. Brand. I really appreciate your time. Miryam: Thank you. It was a pleasure to be here. Nehemia: Guys, please go to nehemiaswall.com and give your comments, what you think about this. Tell us what you think. Do you want more of this? If you want more, go to understandingsin.com, Miryam’s new website, and listen to her podcast. I can’t wait to listen to her podcast. Miryam: Thank you. Nehemia: Shalom. Miryam: Shalom. Nehemia: This episode of Hebrew Voices was sponsored by the Ashley family from Mexico. Gracias. Todah. You have been listening to Hebrew Voices with Nehemia Gordon. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon’s Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. We hope the above transcript has proven to be a helpful resource in your study. While much effort has been taken to provide you with this transcript, it should be noted that the text has not been reviewed by the speakers and its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. If you would like to support our efforts to transcribe the teachings on NehemiasWall.com, please visit our support page. All donations are tax-deductible (501c3) and help us empower people around the world with the Hebrew sources of their faith! Subscribe to "Nehemia Gordon" on your favorite podcast app! Related Posts: Show Notes: Dr. Brand's Commentary on 1 Enoch:
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Enoch Walking with Angels
The Origin of Sin
The Lost Book of Jasher
The Book of Jasher Exposed
Hebrew Voices Episodes
Genesis 6:1-4
1 Enoch (online)
Dr. Brand's Website
Numbers 13:33
This was fascinating and I for one want MORE. I will say that while I have only read the first few chapters of the Book of Enoch, years earlier (time goes so quickly and I have been far too busy with mundane concerns), it rang true to me from the start. It was like, “Finally, someone is addressing this aspect of life that has been missing from our common understanding.” I know that you, Nehemia, approach it with that Litvakia skepticism, and I am having a totally different reaction, but it just makes so much sense to me. Bear with me. Occult knowledge came into the world to man from the Nephilim, and this is similar to the stories of the Greeks and indeed of all ancient civilizations which describe the “god’s”, small “g”, bringing some hidden knowledge to man, as a “gift”, such as Prometheus bringing fire, etc., and makes sense that these fallen angels would want man to petition for them, as in ‘look, we’ve helped you, we’ve given you secret knowledge, now please explain to the Creator of the universe how we’ve actually improved your lives – intercede, recommend us and our actions to Elohim because maybe you can persuade Him that we haven’t been all that bad;” but of course, God, in His superior wisdom, sees the big picture – they’ve left their eternal, immortal estate in the heavenly realms; they didn’t need wives to mate with to carry forth their seed; they disobeyed the cosmic order set up by God for reasons beyond their understanding; so ‘no – what you did was evil, and now you will continue to exist (some would say, in an unseen dimension) until the great Day of the LORD…when you will be cast into hell, which was created for HaSatan and his rebellious angels.’ It just makes so much sense to me, and the more I learn about its (the B of E’s) contents, the more pieces of the puzzle fit, I think. And thank you, Ashley (sp?) Family of Mexico, for making this podcast possible through your financial support, and thanks to all, especially Nehemia and Dr. Brand for graciously sharing. (I do retain a grain of skepticism because I do believe that one day we will all know, for certain, those truths we only understand partially today.) Todah!
I didn’t edit quite enough; I meant to write “that Litvakian skepticism” and I hope I spelled that right …
you’re welcome Neville Newman
Ugh ……
Can I ask is this a real picture has archeologist actually found Nephilim Skeltons
I scolded Nehemia for using that picture… he does comment at the bottom of the page that it is a famous hoax…
Yes, this is a real picture. I’m presently watching a video that explains about the bones of giants and the cover up of such things. To get up-to-date historical information, I suggest you look up Steve Quayle, Tim Alberino, or Tom Horn to learn more. They can explain more accurately about the Nephilim and their offspring with podcasts, videos, and books .
No it’s a photoshop picture
Does HaSatan or the Devil really exist?
Or that is a bad interpretation of the scriptures from the cristhians?
Satan really exits. Yeshua refers to him and his demons. Yeshua was tempted by Satan but Yeshua said “ it is written “, and did what was written. But greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.
Genesis 6:3 is speaking about 120 times cycles or Jubilee Cycles(Seven years times seven equals one jubilee cycle). With year one in cycle also is the 50th Jubilee cycle. This scripture is key to understanding the Daniel 9:26 prophesy. Christ said angles and man can not have sex as angles not do that so I think I respectfully hold to his idea and what He spoke as truth This is scripture he gives this in.
Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven
Sort of puts whole in theology of demons or fallen angels having sex with human woman.
Still love this show. Great teachings here. Praise Yehovah’s servants and teachers. Thanks so much for all you provide those seeking truth. Shalom
The angels in heaven are not the Fallen Ones (there is a difference). They did not keep their first estate (double entendre), i.e. Abode and Purity. I can’t afford to be dogmatic, that’s just the way I’ve always seen the distinction. It’s like how Yeshua can be son of God and son of man ( it seems that a spirit delivered Ydna in vitro as Miriam slept ).
Thank you for these teachings I found this very interesting
I recently went back to this and had to read it in Genesis. It seems if read in the Complete Jewish Bible, that the giants were dinosaurs, and the sons of God were just created men as God was looking down on them, His created human beings. The sons of God saw the daughters of men, WHEN, the giants were upon the earth. The giants were on the earth also after, because Noah brought dinosaurs on the ark. The giants are the fallen ones, or extinct.
The angel had other off spring which we called aliens, 700 different kind. Snakes being,ractillen, giants greys, they also play with DNA by mixing humans and lion, horese ect. Fish god which is 1/2 human and fish , which his names isus..
great topic, one thing i haven t heard mentioned is the scapegoat ceremony, where sin is ascribed to azazel. Azazel was a fallen angel found in the book of enoch.
so is it safe to say from this discussion i can come to the conclusion that the book of enoch and the verse in genesis is not talking about nephelim being demi god giants or huge creatures but actually talking about evil spirits and demons? thats what i got from it.
This confirms there was Angel worship in the first century:
Colossians 2:18 “Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a man is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind,”
Amen!
Why do we automatically think this has to do with physical intercourse?
Yes “Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Giants (Nephilim). The ‘Mighty Men of Renown’ are the Gibborim created by the Watchers when they left their heavenly abode and came down to the daughters of men as recorded in Genesis Chapter 6:4 of the Old Testament. They are half breeds, angelic
hybrids, the Titans.
NEPHILIM HYBRIDS & ANGELS – BOOK OF ENOCH – ORIGIN OF DEMONS & GIANTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YinCWgp8IU&list=PLV7Wy_Z8JeGhbeJAtFKQNn-a3cPkpB9Kw
When fallen angels shape-shift into a form of human being they can have intercourse but not without some aberrant genetic changes. The union of these beasts with humans produced children that were different in many ways. The first apparent difference was that they developed giantism. They were giants or Nephilim. Og the King of Bashan had a bed that was 13 to 15 feet long; and Goliath was 6 cubits tall (9 feet). The second aberration was that they had six fingers and six toes… “The aberrant genetic tendencies of the Nephilim were unfortunately cloned into the D.N.A. of mankind. According to the Bible, only Noah escaped this genetic intervention at the time. There are no records of these perverse tendencies prior to the intervention of the Watchers. These dormant genetic tendencies still surface today at times in different people … The Watchers are a guardian class of angels that were assigned to watch over the earth and protect mankind from just this sort of thing happening.
Jesus said, “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.” (Matthew 24:37). How were the days of Noah? They were violent and according to 2 Peter verse 2 these are the days that the angels fell and were judged. According to Jude 6 these are the days that the angels fell and were chained
in Tartarus deep in the earth.
Interesting, this would make logical sense , why Yehovah has brought about the flood on to the earth. We do know from scriptural records, that extreme evil continued after the flood , and indeed is present to this day.
In fact , genetic alterations again are possible and is this not one of the signs of the end?
Rabbi Daniel Lapin explanation is that theses are not angels but “sons of great men” that just took whatever woman they wanted made them pregnant and left them high and dry, the children are the “fallen ones”, just falling into the world without a father. they become dangerous young men.
for instance, i think it is the Dallas Cowboys, there are players that have fathered 72 children with 23 different women.
i hope this helps you.
6 players
The field of genetics shows that in most cases, two people of like origin will be similar in appearance, stature, skin color taking on the traits of both parents. The question at hand then, where does the “giant:” part of this come in. The Bible does speak of differences between normal and the giant. Usually, 6 fingers/toes. This is not normal genetics. Mate a 6ft man with a 5’5 women and you typically will not end up with 10-36 foot tall offspring. Something was different about this union. The Sons of God are mentioned several times in the book of Job, ALL referring to angels. What tied it up for me is in the 1st century historian Josephus book, Antiquity of the Jews, it states in Chapter three that indeed, human women cohabitated with angels. This is what was being taught in Yeshua’s day.
I have followed this discussion for some while. I have a needling question which may seem unrelated but I have no one to ask. We look around in the society and it appears that our human distortion is increasing “like the days of Noah”.
I have witnessed an odd phenomenon. In the 80 years past, swearing has changed!
The use of words to curse or express outrage are different. Formerly, Gods name was used to condemn, or the name of Jesus was invoked, things or people were condemned to hell, or people cursed someone’s mother or conception. All of that seems gone.
Now only one word is used, as a noun, verb an adjective or adverb. And of all the oddities, it connotes sex. One would think that the worst of times would cause creative openly cursing of God, but not so, we curse about sex. Is that odd or is it a tell tale witness that distorted , contaminated sex is involved in human hatred of God? Another oddity is that the use of the word grows and it seems to almost be contagious.
I look forward to feedback as this seems a picture of assault in the past and future of vulnerable humans.
I appreciate ya. Shalom y’all.
Hi. Thanks for a discussion of Watchers and Enoch. FYI I think it is important because Yeshua in the NT states that before the Messiah comes, “it will be as in the days of Noah”; there are pastors saying that the watchers corrupted human DNA as YHVH created, with the intent of destroying mankind and pollutinglineage of the Messiah … And.. that the nephalim and raphim are coming back to do their dastardly deeds. There are journal articles now saying that scientists plan a “trans human” movement with altered human DNA to enable immortality without YHVH and interface our brains with computer enhanced artificial intelligence. Again destroying our DNA as YHVA created us. Just a thought for consideration.
I concur – as I recently saw an article about some ‘mad’ scientists who, in order to save mankind from extinction, are designing an altered human genome and incorporating Artificial Intelligence (and God-knows-what-else), just as you mention. Things are escalating “just as it was in the days of Noe…”. Noah was ‘perfect in his generations’, meaning his DNA was unaltered, and that’s why his line was preserved. I suspect one or more of his daughters-in-law carried a flaw, and that’s how we got some giants after the flood wiped everyone else out. Amazing how some people can’t believe the plain text of the Bible and make the connection to current events. Also, I’d like to know how 7 billion living humans equates to humans on the verge of extinction !?!
1. The “sons of God” in Gen 6 are not angels. Angels cannot marry or procreate (Matt 22:30). This is plain and simple. They are of two different substances (1 Cor 15). It would be like a bird and a pig mating. Can’t happen. Likewise, the Messiah is not the literal “son of God.” The Deity is not a man (Num 23:19). He has no fleshly genetic code. He cannot sire a son. Yeshua was created from Mary as Adam was created from dust. Yeshua is the “last Adam.” When he was resurrected, he was changed and became the “firstborn” of the new Creation, the “son of God” with power.
2. Adam is called the “son of God” (Luk 3:38). Abel was murdered and Cain was cut off and exiled. Seth continued the line of Adam as the heir. The term “son” applies not only to the direct progeny of the parent but all future descendants as well (Gen 31:28). Thus, the “sons of God” refer to the lineage of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.
3. The “daughters of men” in Gen 6:2 refer to those born in v. 1 of men. These men are called “adam” because all men come from Adam. They do not refer to neanderthals, as another poster propositioned. Gen 1 is telling of the re-creation of the earth after it had been destroyed by some cataclysmic event. Neanderthals, dinosaurs, etc. existed on the earth prior to Gen 1. The distinction between the “sons of God” and these men had already been made in the chapters prior: the lineage of Cain and the lineage of Seth.
4. The righteous men of Seth married the unrighteous daughters of Cain. This led to the righteous being yoked with the unrighteous and light with darkness. So much so that only Noah was left of the righteous.
5. The “nephilim” were already in the earth prior to the “sons of God” marrying the “daughters of men.” It says this specifically in Gen 6:4. Therefore, the “nephilim” were also created from the “sons of men” and the “daughters of men.”
6. “Nephilim” does not mean fallen ones. It means those that “fall on” people, i.e. giants. The Anakim are called “nephilim” (Num 13:33). The Anakim were a great and tall people (Deu 9:2).
7. There is a slight variation between “nephilim” of Gen 6:4 and Num 13:33. Num 13:33 has a yod between pei and lamed. This hints at a slightly different meaning between the two. Thus, I believe “giants” is not literal, but figurative. They were “giants” or men of great stature and reputation, i.e. “men of renown.” This is not a good thing. They were likely tyrants who enslaved the masses and elevated themselves as gods. They may also have been very tall men (like Goliath) who clubbed their way to the top. This would be the literal meaning of giants (not that they were absurdly tall as others proposition).
8. The Book of Enoch is rubbish. 2 Pet 2 and Jude do not promote the Book of Enoch. They are actually using the passages from the Book of Enoch AGAINST those that preach it. Jude says, “But these speak evil of those things which they know not (i.e., the angels)…” And Peter says, “Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord… speak evil of the things that they understand not…” Accusing the angels of sinning is a “railing accusation” made by people who do not understand the things of the heavenly.
9. Angels do not sin. They are incapable of sin. It is our nature that causes us to sin. Angels do not have a sinful nature. When Peter says (paraphrasing) that IF God did not spare the angels that sinned (as these preachers say) then He is not going to spare those unrighteous preachers that proclaim that the angels sinned. Rabbinical Jews believe that angels can make mistakes and “sin,” but this is not due to a sinful nature. They made an “honest mistake.” In any account, angels cannot intentionally violate the will of Deity.
questions,
did God creat the devil evil as he is???
if no where did he come from???
Apologies but some of your points here are way off.
How do you explain Job 1:6, 2:1- and Job 38?
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”
This verse by itself seems fairly clear that Satan and other angels came in front of God and He and Satan had a discussion about Job. This repeats again in Job 2:1. The real deal is in Job 38:
Job 38:7 where Yah is asking Job if he was there when he established the world. The proof is in verse 7. Job was not there but eh sons of God were. Angels are usually referred to as stars in the Bible. Take a look. God specifically calls out Job and asks, “Where were you” when he did all these things at creation. No man existed! As you continue the narrative when he “laid the foundation of the earth” or “stretched out a line on it”. Who was there? The angelic host were the only ones that existed at the time of earths creation (besides God of course).
38 Then the Lord (A)answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,
2
“Who is this that darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3
“Now gird up your loins like a man,
And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!
4
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
5
Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?
6
“On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7
When the morning stars sang together
And all the (H)sons of God shouted for joy?
And point number 9, really?
Isaiah 14:12-14
12
“How you have fallen from heaven,
O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!
13
“But you said in your heart,
‘I will (C)ascend to heaven;
I will (D)raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
14
‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
(E)I will make myself like the Most High.’
Here we have Satan/Lucifer himself blaspheming God himself. This is not sin? The Bible is replete with his sins and rebellion.
And also on point 4, how do you explain Seth sons being righteous and Cain’s unrighteous daughters when in Gen 6, it says that ALL flesh had corrupted it way upon the earth. Wouldn’t ALL Flesh include Seth’s so called righteous sons?
Genesis 6:12
God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
Genesis 6:13
Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.
It does say angels don’t marry or given in marriage but I don’t know if we can mean that they don’t have “some” ability to procreate. The bible never is explicit about that fact. They might not have been created with an inward ability to create after themselves as adam was. His ability was within him as eve, who was taken from him. She now apart from him, might have made access to their abilities to do so that were lacking before in the form of woman being now separated outside of man. As far as angels “sinning”, lucifer was an angel who surely fell from heaven & it is making a case of micheal, another angel not bringing accusation against him. The point being that those who have not been authorized by God to do so & sent with His message, should not be trying to judge those that have been allowed into leadership & oversight positions over peoples. God does send human messengers to those, but to save further confusion, deception & misery to this whole fallen state of the world, those should not be someone who authorizes themselves & therefore go without perfect sight, clarity & righteousness of being sent by Him & equipped with His message. Also interesting is the fact that the Bible declares before man’s creation & at the creation of the world that the sons of God rejoiced when the foundations were being fastened & the cornerstone of the earth laid. Who are these that were there rejoicing before man of the dust came to being?
Thanks for the time to put this up !
The story of the Nephilim is an interesting one do you have more on this ?
Awesome interview! Thanks Nehemiah
I’d like to suggest a radical interpretation. The story in Gen 6:1-7 might be a remnant of a very distant human ‘folk memory’, since angels cannot breed with humans. Humans and Neanderthals first encountered each other in what is now Israel. The ‘children of God’ might be what the Neanderthals called themselves (humans and Neanderthals interbred, with some difficulty; not all the offspring survived due to genetic disparity), and the Nephilim (=’giants’) might be Denisovans, contemporaries of the Neanderthals. The Denisovans were about 1.5 times taller than modern humans, and also interbred with humans. Their own name for themselves (endonym) might have sounded similar to Nephilim (biblical Hebrew had a tendency to give other peoples Hebrew names derived from what their own names sounded like), and so may have had nothing to do with the verb ‘to fall’ originally. Given the fact that not all hybrids survived, humans may have come to see the Neanderthals as a curse, and inflicted genocide on them – through this contact, the sin of genocide came into the world, and God decided to do something about it……….It’s the ONLY interpretation that fits the text AND the scientific evidence. .
The Nephilim are merely “those who came down” or “descended ones” referring to fallen angels. The word does not mean giants nor demons nor anything else. The nephilim are the fallen (descended) angels.
Aren’t the “Sons of Elohim” the “fallen angels” that are kept in eternal bonds?
Jude 1:6
That would make the Nephilim the offspring of fallen angels and women.
The nephilim are connected to the Anakim in Numbers 13. From the Anakim sprung all of the giant clans among the Canaanites. The sons of Anak were giants.
The problem with the Sethite theory is that it has zero Scriptural support, and is entirely speculation. It also makes a mess of the narrative and contextual sequence in Gen 6. Every reference to man or mankind in Gen 6:1-4 is represented by “HaAdam” in Hebrew. Are we to believe that the bene’ elohim are human? The two wildly different terms are used to create a distinction, between human beings and divine beings.
There is no accounting for the existence of six-fingered giants with a de-supernaturalized view.
We know they really were gigantic by the descriptions of Joshua, Amos, and Moses in Deuteronomy. We even have detailed descriptions of the size and weight of their weapons and armor in multiple places. It would require something gigantic to wield such equipment. No man can use a spear the size of a weavers beam, with a fifteen pound tip. His armor was at least 250 pounds. It takes some serious interpretive gymnastics to dodge this. The question is: Why do the vast majority of textual critics deny the overwhelming Scriptural support for the origination and effect on history of the giants?
It unwittingly, or perhaps wittingly conceals the nature of divine beings, the ante-diluvian world, evil spirits, and the operation of the enemy in contemporary settings. That is the most dangerous aspect of this.
The Bible does say that angels are not married or taken in marriage but those are the angels of God. We are not talking about those who are keeping his charge. We are talking about the fallen angels, the ones that left their first estate/habitation. Where did they go then? The came down to earth. So many verses talk about angels interacting with humans and could not be differentiated from a human. The bible also says we could entertain these angels unaware of that fact. Take a look at Jude 1:6
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
This verse starts out saying angels left their domain (heaven), their proper place. These are the ones paying the big price! They did something so wicked that they are kept in chains and darkness for judgement. Now look at what Lucifer did in Isaiah 14 with the 5 I wills. Is he not roaming the earth free right now looking for whom he can devour? What sin did these specific angels who left their first estate do to warrant being held captive in prison in darkness and chains till judgement day while Satan roams free?
Just a as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah IN THE SAME WAY AS THESE (the angels), went after STRANGE FLESH! Most are aware of the sexual perversion of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality among others (the strange flesh), the angels in like manner, violated Gods law in a big way. It was never intended for angels and humans to conceive children. This is why they were incarcerated because they found a way. Yah told all physical, fleshly creatures/animals/birds/fish to “multiply” after their own kind. We have first hand a story of the people of Sodom trying to have sex with the men Lot was trying to protect. Were they not ANGELs?
very niece insights neighbor. Ones i tend to hold as being true. We are told that man is the only part of Gods creation that was made in His own image and likeness, but just above the animals and just below the the angels. Knowing this, the angels are much more powerful than we are and capable of moving between 2 realms. They are even capable of possessing human beings or appearing has humans, so why would it be hard for some to understand that they where able to copulate with human women. I think maybe the denial comes from self-righteous pride, because we forget who we truly are. With this said, we are also told that one day we will be judging angels ( if that doesn’t blow your mind ). There are many mysteries that God wishes to reserve for Himself, but i shall Praise my Lord for the clarity of understanding salvation through Jesus the Christ who makes known the truth and it will set us free.
Of cause the sons of the Gods were people for the Gods are people. Their other name they’re known by is the Annunaki and they reside on the planet Nibiru. But still no matter what, they are normal people, they are human. Even according to Genesis 1 verse 25 – 28 or so it’s recorded they we, us humans were created equal to God, in His image and in His likeness. So therefore, seeing we are human AND equal to God it naturally tells us that God Himself is only just a normal human like we are.
I was not able to find a link to subscribe to Dr. Brand’s blog. I can read it, but I saw no place to subscribe. Do you have any information?
Really great dialogue between you, Nehemiah, and Dr. Brand. Look forward to more. Thank you.
You guys got this totally wrong. After Lucifer’s immaculate conception with Eve. Angels mating with humans have never happen again until Gabriel annunciation about the coming of Jesus.
Is their any relation with Iyov 1:6-12, 2:1-10?
I am new here, and I am sure someone has asked this but may you answer me in my ignorance. I listened to the discussion with Dr Brand. In the past I have dismissed the angel-human connection, although it would explain demons. My question is; If Jews believe this happened previously, why do they have a problem with God impregnating a human for a son?… And why do Christians have a problem with the origin of demons since they believe God had a half human son? Thank you
excellent questions! 😉
Sons of Elohim = “fallen angels” kept in bonds awaiting judgement (Jude 1:6)
Disembodied spirits of dead Nephilim = demons (Zech 13:2)
Sons of Elohim + Daughters of men = Nephilim —> demons
The word “nephilim” simply means: “ones who came down” or “descended ones”. That’s all. Not giants nor demons nor anything else.
As living Nephilim they were from “descended ones,” but didn’t they become disembodied evil spirits (“demons”) when they died, seeking to inhabit other things?
Mat 8:16, 28-32
1 Cor 10:19-21
Is it possible to have a transcript of these?
To find the answers go to Ps. 82….then go to the creation week. On the 6th day men and women were created in His likeness and image. Now go to the end of that chapter and read where the creation was finished. I get no info in the creation that Adam and Eve were created at this time. There is no telling how long ago the creation was finished nor the time line of when Adam and Eve were created. At the creation time we have beings that were created like HIM with no telling how much intelligence and knowledge, but we are told in Ps. 82 that they rebelled, they were created to aid the widows and orphans but sided with the rich, instead. Not all but some. Those beings were male and female humans but not like Adam and Eve. There is a greater understanding today about blood types Rh – and +. And I have a feeling they the first humans were Rh-. And not suppose to mate with the Adamic line….Gen 6 tells us that they did and strange hybrids were born. We are also told that He did not want the hybrids to continue and attempted to wipe them out during the flood and the occupation of the land of Israel, where they still lived in small pockets in the area. An interesting study, and I am also very comforted to know that He did provide beings to be our guardians, me , now being a widow it means a lot to know the faithful ones are watching over us.
Love, love, love this type of discussion. More of Dr. Brand and NehemUAG!
Please do more episodes with Dr. Brand! This stuff is fascinating and she’s a veritable expert.
The book of Hebrews says that God never called angels sons. Yeshua said angels don’t marry. In the old testament sons of God refer to men. In Job 38:7 the sons of God is referring to the sun and moon. See Psalm 148. Anyone familiar with the scriptures will perceive that the book of Enoch is not inspired. Just because Peter and Jude quote one or two sentences from it doesn’t constitute an endorsement of it. Paul quoted Greek works. Enoch contradicts a number of scriptures and has a ludicrous perception of reality. For example, it says that the angels built Noah’s ark(67:2) and the sun and moon are the same size(72:37 and 78:3). It says the year only has 364 days(82:6) and that one month has 28 days(78:9) which didn’t come into being until the Julian calendar. The book is obviously a fraud. Also, it is full of astrology. Finally, anyone who believes the 106th chapter is seriously deficient in the ability of discriminating the truth since it is more ridiculous than some of the passages in the epic of Gilgamesh.
Shalom Bill. Please take it easy on this one. There appears to be sooooo very much we don’t contemplate concerning dementional existence and how fluidity our God and His created beings move between the two. If you wish to be wise like Paul and say “I have determined to know nothing among you except Messiah, and Him crucified”,, I certainly won’t fault you for you will have chosen the better part as Mirium did. But to speak so definitive concerning such things, ither for, or against, just seems unwarranted. For me and my house, we’re going to listen for the true tone of wisdom in these discussions for I believe it can be had. Blessings to you and yours as you seek Him!
Job 1 and Job 2 speak of the Sons of God and how they all went in unto God (this thrown room) and Satan went with them and he had a discussion with God about Job. So you are saying these sons of God mentioned in the same book (Job chapters 1 and 2) are the sun a nd moon in verse 38? That means that the sun and moon went in with Satan to the thrown room of God in chapters 1 and two to watch the discussion. The sun and moon were placed in the firmament and do not leave their circuit.
Interesting….. Been studying this very subject for over five years.
To which of the angels has He ever said “you are my son?” I cannot and will not believe that fallen angels cam mate with human women to produce giants! While angels can appear as men, they are not men, not flesh but spirit, fallen or not..there are many “precursors” in history that seem to be in common with Judeo-Christian beliefs, such as mother and child worship of Semmeramis (Easter) being impregnated by the rays of the sun and begetting Tammuz..clearly the only way for Miriam (a virgin) to conceive was by the Holy Spirit…see without the original the counterfeit is meaningless. We have giants today, are they Nephilim? No! These “sons of God” were just that Godly men who intermarried with pagan, heathen women.which went against God’s instruction. Anytime you’re disobedient there are consequences!
Great Point Angels or spirits are neither male or female only references to Male is to establish authority as set forth in Genesis
I so agree. Sons of God, line of the godly, and daughters of men, those of the same nature of Cain.. This is why, and let me say clearly I BELIEVE, the thread to the END in the B’rit Chadashah is “do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers for what fellowship hath darkness with light?”. For those of us who are married, we understand that the woman has a GREAT influence with her man. We watched Solomon fall away due to the influence of women. We see it in the Midianite deception. Women are a great influence on a man’s faith. Sons of God are just that, sons of God, not angels. In Job, the place that seems to cause consternation, and it would be good if we could get more of the Hebrew from there, it says that the Sons of God appeared along with hasatan, and if I may submit, I have always believed that the picture was those who were in prayer came before Father. As they were praying the adversary also “came in”.. I know it’s just my speculation, but it makes more sense to me. I base this on there having been at least three times every day of unified prayer time. I know there are also night watches etc.. so maybe not JUST three.. Yet this is what I see out of the Amidah, and of course with Daniel, and a few others! We are also told, and again, it’s from the B’rit, but our very own mouths are used in the presence of God, when we yield to accusation, we have come in another spirit. “Get thee behind me hasatan” when Peter opened his mouth.. it was another spirit he yielded too..
Men of renown/giants, are not only those in physical stature, but they are also conquerors.. Those who “try to take over the world”.. Still trying, even today. islam a forerunner in this…
I do believe in the fallen angels and the demonic. I do believe in possession, but I do not believe they procreated with women. They do not have those parts, they were not made that way, they are SPIRIT.
what makes you so sure they don’t have ‘those parts’, did you encounter one and got him undressed? when the watchers came down they abandoned their habitation (whatever that means) and was a form of rebellion which God considered unforgivable. your interpretation of the passage in Job is really out of tune…I wasted my time reading it. you quoted the NT so did you read the epistles of Peter and Jude? did God put in tartarus the descendants of the godly people??? the text of Gen 6 does not support your idea as the daughters of men corrupted the sons of God, just the opposite. the verse that most run to for ‘proof’ that the angels can’t mate is when Jesus said that we will not marry anymore rather will be like angels in heaven…the key word is heaven. these fallen ones/nephilims, abandoned their abode and came down to earth, they didn’t mate in heaven. if cain’s line mated with seth’s line, why the offspring turned out giants??? have you ever heard of a ligar??? anyway you’re entitled to your opinion…
Then where are they today Sonny? If they were there before the flood and after the flood, why have they not appeared since that time? And if they had those “parts” they would be mortal..
What does a ligar have to do with angels and mortals mating?
You haven’t seen one either.. so the argument goes the other way…
If you’d re-read my comment, I don’t have to repeat myself.
You insist that angels don’t have sex organs, that’s why I asked if you’ve seen one. Why are you so sure about that?
I mentioned ligar because it’s a hibrid of a lion and a tiger and that’s the reason of it’s size. Giant remains are found allover so you can’t discard their existence. Now if Seth’s line and Cain’s line interbreeded, why did they produce giant offsprings???
Remember the word angel means messenger, so there are more types of angels including the fallen ones. You asked where are they now…read the book of Jude, he tells you. They can’t do nothing anymore because they are in chains. As far as their offsprings they died in the flood since they were partly mortals and their spirits are what we came to know as demons. The giants in the land of Canaan after the flood were like babies in comparison to the giants before the flood. The gene mutation caried by Ham’s wife reproduced them. Thank David for taking them out so we don’t have to deal with them anymore. Your idea of righteous vs unrighteous breeding it doesn’t hold any water in light of the biblical statements.
Sonny, your comment about ligers was new information to me, so I went off to read about them. I had no idea that they can (tend to?) grow larger than either lions or tigers. It can be much bigger, in fact. Thanks for sharing that tidbit.
your belief or unbelief as well as mine, are irrelevant so lets put them on the side for now and try to analyze the text not our preconceptions. ‘while angels can appear as men, they are not men, not flesh but spirit…’
wow…please enlighten me, how did you reach that conclusion??? do spirits eat??? can they walk??? can be touched??? if they can’t be flesh how did Jacob got to fight one or Abraham to eat with them or the sodomites to lust for them???
about your ‘precursors’ I’m confused…a counterfeit NEVER comes before the original…are you suggesting that Tammuz was the original and Jesus the counterfeit??? and the last one ‘…we have giants today…’, where??? the world’s record is about 8 feet and they seems like midgets compared to the archeological findings…20-30 feet. those sons of God that you called godly men are in chains in tartarus not in sheol, wonder why, if they were godly men??? oh well you can keep on believing whatever you want, but remember our beliefs will not change the facts, it only keeps us in the dark.
first comment was addressed to Lisa and the second one to Carol
Thanks Nehemia, and greetings to Ashley Family.. very good friends of my family !!!
There is in Daniel 8 the talk of Angles falling away to follow Satan through the abomination of Desolation also in Ezekiel 39,39 with Gog, Rosh, Meshek, and Tubal.. deep teachings for we learn that angles also have free will and will come before the judgement. I do not agree with book of Enoch, i see it is a man inspired book. The Tanakh in the truth! Shalom
Joseph Israel, you have made an important connection. Some of those beings are known or reasoned from the scriptures to be very handsome/beautiful. If we should see one then we would affirm that it is a cute angle. Some of them are not very smart. Those are obtuse angles.
Good Show!
This was very interesting! Thanks!
Is their any discussion on Deuteronomy 28?
Angels canot procreate; angels are spirit beings and therefore have no DNA nor chromosomes.
But it is said that these angels that fell, left their first “estate”. Their habitat. Or nature even. It is IN heaven where beings arnt given in marraige. Leaving their firdt estate, they went down to earth. Who knows what they were capable of doing. And when defining “spirit”..it could be very similar to our nature. .or material.
you are correct to leave your first estate and come down means they had the same hard ware as i haveit is what it is
Thank you for explaining the Hebrew more completely. This helps put Rob Skiba’s teaching in better context.
One possible interpretation I have run across is that there were humans on earth that were created before Adam. That is who the sons of Adam married. Thus the sons of Yah were of Adam’s linage and the sons/daughters of man were those who were of the others. Giants and men of renown were the men who took charge and were “leaders” etc.
God created the Heavens and the Earth, then created Man on the 6th day, male and female He created them. There is no scripture to back up man being here before Adam and Eve, nor any that says more were created after Adam and Eve. God gave them the ability to procreate and told them to fill the earth.
They get that idea from the use of “adam” in a generic form to describe the creation of mankind, before it is used in a specific way to describe the man as by name (Adam). This apparently inconsistent usage of “adam” also gave rise to the idea that the originally created human was fundamentally different than the animals in that [s]he had both genders in one being (“male and female created he them”) prior to God deciding that this plan was not good, that the man needed a “companion” and so he woman was created/separated out of the man. This seems to have originally been a Jewish idea.
Very Interesting, I would love learning more about this. All your shows have been enlightening.
Interesting and enjoyable discussion! Keep in mind the Hebrew word malak, used as angels, only means messenger, not necessarily angel. Malak is used numerous times in other contexts so we know it is not just angelic beings. Angel beings, fallen or otherwise, are specifically referred to as cherubim, seraphim, and teraphim. Not all malak are therefore angels, imho, including the one who does not identify himself to Jacob, yet Jacob’s name is changed and the place is also called Peniel. This mysterious “angel” or messenger was none other than God Himself in bodily form. As further support, notice also the presence of the aleph-tav (“the First and the Last” of Isaiah 44:6). An in depth study of the aleph-tav reveals much, especially that it is not JUST an object identifier (a grammatical tool), but also an actual identifier of Elohim revealed in bodily form. This is supported also in messianic prophecies.
Very interesting… A few decades ago, I wrote a long piece in a poetry class. I will not repeat in whole, other than to say, that it was on trying to write in biblical prose on an idea that flashed into my mind, a couple of hours before having to go to class, but that it mentioned within the prose… “..the leaders of men renowned… This piece was based on an idea of just before Noah’s entry into the ark.
What about the “mixing” of seed? Would angels have “seed”?
Amen and amen!
A very good illustration!
May YHWH bless the conversation with the hidden things of His Torah!
Looking forward to all that comes through the people of YHWH seeking truth,
Shalom to all!
Adam was not what we are today, he was an angelic like being, bones and flesh but no blood. When he ate the fruit he died that day. To save Adam, YHVH created a coat of animal skin and wrapped it around this dying angelic being. This is a poetic way of saying YHVH turned Adam into an animal, as we are today.
YHVH is just. If YHVH allowed Adam to become an animal, He has to allow Angels as well. Angel DNA then began corrupting Adam’s descendants by mating with human women. This set up the need for the Flood to purify humans by killing anyone with this corrupt lineage and also explains the passage stating that Noah was perfect in his generations – no fallen angel DNA.
Christians believe Yeshua was restored to what Adam was before the Fall after the resurrection.
Nehemia thank you. Dr. Brand and you make interesting listening.
Dear Nehemia,
you are one of the greatest teachers I know, my favorite expert in everything about the hebrew Tanach, Matthew, and the context history around. Now, to hear you being surprised about the details of the book of Enoch, is a big surprise to me. Who are Gavriel, Michael, Raphael, and Uriel, the four arch-angles, who all the angel-worshippers know? Who is this Azazel, and why is he somewhere out in the desert, what was rehearsed on Yom Kyppur? THIS ALL WAS COMMON KNOWLEDGE, WHEN THE TORAH WAS WRITTEN! Also Daniel, Zecharjah (haCohen), and Mirjam (batYoseph) knew who was talking to them. Where does it come from, that hasatan is the great accusor? Was the great flood a righteous judge for worshiping gods of wood and stone, or a compelling step for something much worse? No no no no, the book of Enoch was a common known prerequisite to the Torah. The same is to say about the book of Jashar, what is mentioned in the Tanach twice. Why are these books neither in the Jewish nor in the Christian Bible? We, the house of Israel and the house of Judah, are (or were) both under punishment. Part of this was to be stripped away from the understanding of the Torah, each in a different way, by Churchianity or Phaiseeism, what is basically the same, leading away from the Torah. The Ethiopian believers were never living in the land of Israel, this semms to be why they never came under spiritual Punishment of YHWH, and why they had the privilege to obtain the book of Enoch. Once recognized this, you will find out, how Moshe could have known of Noah and the flood, how Noah knew what are clean and unclean animals, and much more. The Torah is not the ultimate book of history, it’s only containing a thin and short guideline of history, to support the given commandments. This seems to be another part of YHWH’s brilliant plan, without the historical sections, the torah could have be dropped out of the Christian bible, maybe even of the Jewish. But both needed the story, and could not separate it from the commandments, this is really brilliant.
By the way, there is another person, that you will never find introduced in any bible, neither in any extra-biblical book, somebody called Belial, the lawless one, but who is mentioned about thirty times. It did not take a long time to find his source, he is explained in the satanic bible. Therein are four books, the book of Satan, Lucifer, Belial, and Levihian. The book of Satan is describing about his power, and how one can get a part of it. The book of Lucifer is about ‘being illuminated’, getting some ‘extra knowledge’. The book of Belial is about lawlessness, ‘how good’ such a life ‘shall be’. The book of Levihian has something to do with their rituals. I took a copy of it, a free pdf-download, but then keeping only the index, titles, introduction sections, and such things, while deleting its ‘real content’ complete. I did not read a single chapter or verse, because I’m afraid to learn something, that I later could try out, maybe in a dark moment. Its good to know about it, the four names and faces of satan, their characteristics, their descriptions, but nothing more than this.
Being in something a little bit ahead of my favorite expert, made me feel a little bit proud, but I hope this will change soon, thanks and regards.
As always, very informative discussion. Thank you Nehemia and Miryam!
Clearly Nehemiah has been blessed with great talent and I feel grateful to The Father in heaven that we all here can benefit from the clarity of understanding and keep us on the path The Most High Yehovah is guiding us to.
May His face shine upon us all
Thank you Nehemia and Dr Brand; Excellent conversation/teaching once again.
Yehovahs promise to save and restore if we seek him and turn to him/his torah with our whole hearts, I’ve experienced this in a big way. With all the teachings out there… this is another encouraging reminder to hold fast to Torah.
Deut 4:2 “do not add to or take away from”
Deut 32:47 “therefore be careful to obey all the words of this Torah for this is not a trivial matter for you, on the contrary, it is your life…
And Yes it would be wonderful to hear more:)
Shalom
This episode really gave me some answers as to how the christian church looks at the demonic world. I really resold with this while being in te church and this does fill up a pit of the gape. I will be listening to her teachings to find out more!! What stuck me most was how the “church” prays…. the always, in my environment, pray for the power of God. wow this insight was amazing!! And I do agree that it never felt right. I am so very glad to have heard this and Nehemiah keep up the good word of making our “world” bigger and possibilities more of the meaning of YeHoVaH’s word. I understand much more of the christian mind set because of your teachings!!
Thank you so much!!
The statement in Genesis… “Noah was perfect in his generations..” seems to indicate a pure genetic pool for his family. They had not intermarried with lines corrupted by the fallen angelic intercourse.
Wow!!! Love this 🙂 Thank you Nehemia! Miryam Brand is amazing!
Thank you so much for this ministry that provides Hebraic understanding, without the rabbinical issues.
My heartfelt gratitude for your Hebrew Voices Series and introducing me to the learned Dr. Brand! My scriptural and spiritual understanding is growing in leaps and bounds which makes me more grounded in my Faith. I thrive on understanding and you are one of my blessed resources.
THANK YOU
Janet
Shalom Nehemiah, thanks you for sharing.
So if that is truth, you know what it means …
It gives all credits to Yeshua conception and story.
God chose to fight evil spirits with His Spirit dwelling in His children starting with Yeshua. That was the only way cause mortal people can’t fight with spirits.Then His Spirit could be given as “Birth From Above” by laying hands, hearing and reading the saving words with Faith. And finally all souls in whose bodies His Spirit dwelled could be gathered and resurrected, as a proof Yeshua presented His Body to first disciples. Its clear why orthodox jews wouldn’t take book of Enoch serious!
is the jude mentioned from the nt?
It would certainly be interesting to hear a “raw stream of Torah consciousness” from the two of you playing off each other. You keep running off to all kinds of interesting places in your discussions! I have been enjoying Miriam’s podcast as well; thank you for bringing it to our attention, Nehemia.
I had heard all of this before but it was nice to know where the sources come from. Good job Nehemia keeping on topic for I am sure it is hard for both you to reign in all the vast knowledge and directions the conversation could go. Thank you for sharing!
Excellent insight on a topic that has been clear as mud for much of my life. I find it hard to believe that angels have the ability to mate with humans because of my assumption that they would not be designed with the tools of making babies because they are created in infinity. But it was an interesting explanation of where evil spirits came from. I really enjoy the freedom of exploring the questions that are hard to answer. Thanks
I agree that certain questions are very hard to answer if one chooses to reject the notion that the Tanakh actually speaks of the Hebrews as being a pure race. Clearly the writers were mistaken in classifying particular tribes as giants. Nor was David up against a family of 6 toe/fingered members. Obviously some people had trouble counting back then. Not that people with 6 toes aren’t ever born in this day, of course, to someone of Polynesian racial lines. Nor would angels ever rebel against YHWH and mislead humanity, that never happens. Mr Darwin was so clever to tell us how diversity came about over billions of years and we know that people, being so clever, went from caves, to the Great Pyramid in the chronology of a few thousand years, and never looked back. That brings us to another point of how our species is continually evolving and our lifespan increasing, genetic diseases a thing of the past, etc. Wow, that makes everything so logical, or is there a simpler explanation, like the different texts state things as they really are? Certainly mainstream theology rejects this notion. Which brings up another question, how did mainstream theology evolve, and is it in danger of extinction in the near future?
Looking forward to Nehemia boldly going where no theologian has gone before.
Yes yes…more of this teaching please. I’m very hungry to know this as if it is stories of home from long ago.
Thank you Nehemiah for adding Hebrew Voices to the lineup each week.
Very interesting int3rvi3w‽ Can’t wait for the podcast!