In this episode of Hebrew Voices, 2300 Days of Hell, Nehemia Gordon expresses his skepticism as author Joseph Dumond warns about the impending demise of hundreds of millions of people beginning in 2020. They discuss Jewish and Christian interpretations of Daniel's Messianic prophecy, ancient Aramaic tombstones that may reveal the true timing of Sabbatical years, and the many conundrums involved in deciphering chronological calculations. Guy Wilson “An honest to goodness instructional debate, most refreshing.”
I look forward to reading your comments!
Transcript
You are listening to Hebrew Voices with Nehemia Gordon. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com.
Nehemia: You’re telling me, by 2027, 90 percent of Americans are gonna be dead. We should be talking about that.
Nehemia: Shalom, this is Nehemia Gordon, and I'm coming to you from Jerusalem. I'm here today with Joe Dumond, and he is the author of the book, “2300 Days of Hell: Two Witnesses, Josephs 7 Years of Plenty and 7 Years of Famine.” There's a picture on the cover of this book, “2300 Days of Hell,” which is the Statue of Liberty. I think, Joe, this was probably inspired by the movie, the “Planet of the Apes,” was it?
Joe: I don't know. The guy that did it for me… you may be right.
Nehemia: It's a really powerful scene at the end of the movie, the “Planet of the Apes.” You've seen it, of course, it's a really old movie. The original “Planet of the Apes” movie, at the end of the movie, Charlton Heston, he's on the beach or something, and he sees the Statue of Liberty, and he realizes he's not on an alien planet. He's on planet Earth. And so, your book has that cover. Joe, how did you come to write a book about, essentially, the end of the world? You're a ditch digger from Canada. You're not an academic, you're not a scholar. You're just a plain old guy who wants to know the truth. That's what I love about you. Tell us a little bit about who you are, and how you came to write this book.
Joe: You had to call me old? I'm sensitive. I just turned 60.
Nehemia: You're older than me, that makes you old.
Joe: I got challenged about the Sabbath in 1982. I proved that the Sabbath is correct, so that's a long time ago. And then in 2004, I heard about the crescent moon, and I heard it through Michael Rood. So, I came to see Michael Rood in Lansing, Michigan in the winter of 2004, 2005. And you were there, and I didn't know who you were. And you guys were talking about that, and I was so excited to learn about it, so I started to tune in to you a little bit more after that. And then at Passover in 2005, I was challenged as to whether I was going to keep the crescent moon Passover or the rabbinic calendar or Hebraic Roots calendar.
Nehemia: Let's back up a little bit. So, in 1982 you were challenged about the Shabbat. What was your affiliation?
Joe: I proved that the Sabbath was true, and then I began to attend the Worldwide Church of God. Herbert Armstrong.
Nehemia: Okay, and then in 2004 when you came to hear me and Michael Rood, you were in something called the United Church of God. Is that right?
Joe: That's right. What I was just learning from you was the crescent moon. And I’d just learned that His name wasn't God. His name, at that time for me, it was Yahweh. And you weren't talking about Yehovah at that time, I don't think, not that I remember.
Nehemia: I was using the name “Yehovah,” but that wasn't the focus of my teachings.
Joe: No, because when I came back, I remember telling my pastor, I said, “We might have to change it from the Church of God to the Church of Yahweh.” I was all excited about that, because He has a name and I didn't know that.
Nehemia: And did he get excited about it, too, your Pastor?
Joe: No, no, I got put on the detention list, to watch this guy.
Nehemia: Wait, seriously?
Joe: Yeah, well, I was being trained at that time, I think, to be a Deacon and they were about to lay hands on me and stuff. But they laid hands on me to get me out, after that.
Nehemia: And this was the United Church of God?
Joe: This was the United Church. I don't begrudge the Church of God, and I learned so much about the Sabbath and the holy days and understanding the Torah from them. They're a great steppingstone for me in my journey, so I'm not knocking them at all. Nothing but praise for them. Everyone's got some negative things to say about different groups. I don't focus on that. I focus on what I learned from them.
Nehemia: The common ground. This is what I focus on.
Joe: Yeah. Let me finish the story. So, after I’d came and seen you guys, Passover came and you made an announcement that Passover was going to be 30 days before when the United Church of God was keeping it, and I wrote you a big hate letter.
Nehemia: Oh, you did?
Joe: Oh, yeah. I blasted you, and I’ve felt so bad ever since. So, I'm sorry. I'm sorry publicly for saying that.
Nehemia: I got news for you. I may not have even read that letter. But okay, I might have, I don't know.
Joe: But I was so mad because I thought I could hide my two different beliefs at that time, together.
Nehemia: In other words, you had your observance of the... I'm going to call it the calendar.
Joe: The rabbinic calendar.
Nehemia: That's what the United Church of God was doing?
Joe: Yes.
Nehemia: So, there was the public rabbinical calendar, and at the same time your conviction was to follow the actual sighted new moon.
Joe: After I'd met you guys in 2005.
Nehemia: And so, you have those two things in your head. And this is, I think, a typical example of what sometimes ends up with people as a cognitive dissonance, right? In your heart you know something's true...
Joe: Okay, I work in construction. Four letter words is all I know.
Nehemia: Okay. And you literally work construction, right?
Joe: Yes.
Nehemia: You operate a backhoe, right?
Joe: I dig ditches for a living. That's the honest to God truth.
Nehemia: Right, and that's one of the things I think I said before that I really like about you is, you're just a simple guy who's searching for truth. And you're kind of like a dog with a bone that you don't drop it. I mean, the man walks in today, and he hands me this big stack of papers on the tombstones of Tzoar, and he's had somebody translate these things from Hebrew and Aramaic. And he's got these charts and these dates, and I'm not sure he's right, but you've definitely put your work in.
So, what I really like about what you do is, here you're following the sources to their logical conclusion. And you're willing to hire a translator to translate sources you can't read. And you're willing to look at those sources and line them up. And in some instances, some of the sources might not fit with your understanding. But you're willing to say, “Okay, here are the tombstones I have, and here are the other sources that don't fit with what I understand.” And that's what I really like about what you're doing. You're genuinely looking for the truth. Now, how does that lead to the world ending with... and I'm going to use that term, the world ending, right?
Joe: It's not exactly ending, per se.
Nehemia: This is what people normally call the “end times,” am I right?
Joe: Yeah.
Nehemia: When is that gonna begin?
Joe: The end times?
Nehemia: Yeah. When does the end times begin, in modern chronological terms?
Joe: I'm saying they've already began. But the date you want me to say is the year 2020.
Nehemia: I want you to say what your understanding is. So, what's gonna happen in the year 2020?
Joe: Well, Israel, all 12 tribes, will become as if they never existed before.
Nehemia: What does that mean?
Joe: That means they're going to be wiped out. It starts in the year 2020. It goes on for a period of six and a quarter-years.
Nehemia: So, between 2020 and 2026 or 2027, there's gonna be some great calamity.
Joe: No, a number of things.
Nehemia: A number of things. Well, one of them is going to be the Jews are going to be wiped out.
Joe: When I say "'the 12 tribes of Israel" I am not speaking specifically about the Jews. The Jews are one 12th of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Nehemia: Okay, and this is what people refer to as the “two-house doctrine.”
Joe: I don't like that, because the two-house doctrine that people say is the House of Judah and the rest of the world, that's the two houses, and I disagree with that. There are the 10 lost tribes. You can trace them by ancient textual sources, such as Esarhaddon, and I'm not sure if I'm saying his name right.
Nehemia: Esarhaddon, who was the emperor of Assyria. Wait, so are you identifying 10 specific nations, or something? Give me an example of who the 10 tribes are.
Joe: The United States, Canada, England, Holland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Norway, Switzerland, those nations like that. I don't know if I got all 10.
Nehemia: So, in other words, this is what was taught by the Worldwide Church of God, and it grew out of the British Israelite idea.
Joe: It grew out of that, yes. But I disregard it.
Nehemia: How so?
Joe: Well, I do like you tell people, go back to the original source. Don't believe what people tell you. Go back to the original source.
Nehemia: For example, you believe Canada is one of the 10 lost tribes.
Joe: They're part of the 10 lost tribes. Which one specifically? No, I don't know.
Nehemia: What's gonna happen to Norway and Canada? Let's start with that.
Joe: Well, the population of Canada is approximately 30 million. The population of Norway, if I remember correctly, was 20 million, but I'm not sure about that number. And so, take 10 percent, that's what's going to be left.
Nehemia: So, 90 percent of Canadians, 90 percent of Americans.
Joe: Gone.
Nehemia: And guys, I'm just gonna say up front. I'm extremely skeptical of any of these end times calculations and scenarios, and that comes from my study of Jewish history, that this is something that has happened time and again in Jewish history. I'm not saying you're wrong…
Joe: I agree with you.
Nehemia: …because I can't prove you wrong. What I can say is I'm very skeptical...
Joe: You said you can't prove me wrong?
Nehemia: Well, no, I think in some way this type of thing is unfalsifiable. Meaning, it can't be disproven by its nature until it happens or doesn't.
Joe: Until 2021.
Nehemia: Until 2028 or 7. In other words, by its nature, I don't know that you can disprove any of these end time scenarios, even in a theoretical way. Let me let me just give you an example. In the 2nd century, I have a teaching about this, Pesher in the Dead Sea Scrolls (support team study). And I bring an example how the Jews fought a war against the Romans, based on an end times prediction that the Messiah would come when Rome conquered what today is Iraq or Mesopotamia. And as soon as Rome conquered Mesopotamia, they said, “Okay, now it's time to overthrow the Romans, because this is the end times prediction we were waiting for.”
And it was a devastating war in which maybe millions of Jews were killed against the Romans. We lost the war. And then there was another war in the year 132, based on calculations. “Well, it has to be 70 years from the destruction of the Temple.” So, they started another war against the Romans based on the end times calculation. And this theme repeated itself over and over and over in Jewish history, and every time it resulted in the persecution of the Jews. Now, at some point, the prediction’s gonna be right, right? It's gonna be correct. But up until now, all the predictions have been wrong and always ended up in Jewish persecution. So I'm extremely skeptical, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say. So, I'm not endorsing it. I want to hear what the 2300 days of hell are.
Joe: Okay. First of all, I had to do this about the chronology, which is what this chart is that I've given you, and it's free on my website, for anyone who wants to download it.
Nehemia: And your website is...?
Joe: Sightedmoon.com. So, I've said to God, “If this is true, I'm willing to stick my neck out as long as You teach me the truth. Don't teach me these lies and fairy tale stuff. If it's the truth, I'll say it.” But I know I'm gonna get a lot of pushback on this, and I understand that, and I have. So, I discovered the sabbatical jubilee years the year that I had to make the decision whether I was going to keep the Passover according to the crescent moon or the Hebrew calendar.
Nehemia: And by Hebrew calendar, you mean the Hillel II, right?
Joe: The rabbinic calendar, that's right. And I had learned that from you and Michael Rood that winter, which I'd never heard of before. So, when I made the decision to keep the Passover, that same day I was introduced to when the sabbatical years were, which I've been praying about for a long time. Because I was wondering, why would God give you a commandment and not tell you when it is?
Nehemia: Let's stop there for a second. For those who are not familiar, in Leviticus 25 and in other passages, we have this concept that you plant for six years and the seventh year you don't plant, and this is what we call in Hebrew “shmita.” This became very popular a few years ago in the US under the mispronunciation “shem-itah” but it's “shmita,” which is also called the “sabbatical year.” Another major thing that happens in shmita is that debts are dissolved. That is, you lend someone money and you have until the end of the sixth year to collect that and then it's erased, essentially, in the sabbatical year.
Joe: And I actually had to do that, and I didn't like it very much. And it wasn't just a couple of dollars.
Nehemia: Oh, I could understand. And those weren't even just Canadian dollars, were they? So, there is a tradition today of when the sabbatical year is, when the shmita year is. And guys, I have a program where I talk about my understanding of when the shmita year is. You can go look for that, we'll put a link on the website, nehemiaswall.com. And Joe here does not agree with my conclusions.
So, when I did the research, I wanted to trace back, why do we say a particular year is the sabbatical year? And I traced it back to Maimonides who was this Rabbi, also known as Rambam, in the 12th century. And here's what he wrote in the Mishneh Torah, that's the name of his book, in Hilkhot Shmita VeYovel chapter 10, sections 5-6. He said, “However, all the ge'onim said that they have a tradition from one man to another.” In other words, he first brings how there's all these different opinions, we're not exactly sure when the shmita is. And then he says, “Okay, those are opinions. Here's the tradition we have.”
He says that “During the 70 years between the destruction of the First Temple and the building of the Second Temple, they only counted shmitas without jubilees.” Meaning, the jubilee is the 50th year and the shmita is the sabbatical year. “So too, when the latter Temple was destroyed, they did not count the 50th year but only multiples of seven from the beginning of the year of destruction. This calculation, which is a tradition that appears in the Talmud, etc.” And then he says, here's the key line. He says, “The year of the shmita is known and famous among the ge'onim,” those are the rabbinical leaders in Israel, “and the people of land of Israel, they all counted only the years of the destruction in multiples of seven. According to this calculation, this year,” meaning the year he's writing, “which is 1,107 year of destruction is the year following a shmita. We rely on this, and we teach this calculation for matters of tithes, produce and loans.”
Joe: Let's look it up right now on air. What year?
Nehemia: It was 1,107 of the destruction of the Second Temple was the year following a shmita. So, 1106 of destruction would be a shmita, according to Maimonides.
Joe: So 1106… 1176 is what I'm looking for. I gotta add 70 to it.
Nehemia: Guys, let me give you a little bit of background. Jews counted years in different ways. Today, we say we're recording this in 2018. 2018 is Anno Domini, which is according to Christians in, I believe, the 5th or 6th century, they calculated it when they believed that Jesus was born. I think most scholars today say that's not accurate. Wait, Joe's got something here.
Joe: I'm doing the happy dance.
Nehemia: Okay, hold on. I want to give people the background. So, we have different ways of counting things. The Christians counted from the year of Jesus, even though today they'll say that Yeshua was born in 6 BC. And what year do you say Yeshua was born?
Joe: 3 BC.
Nehemia: 3 BC, which is kind of ironic. Yeshua was born 3 years Before Christ? Then a lot of people will say instead of BC, they'll say BCE, “Before the Common Era,” because it's no longer believed that that's exactly when Yeshua was born. And then, other people say BCE is Before the Christian Era. Jews really didn't use that counting until relatively late. What Jews used was early on in the Seleucid era, that is the counting of the Greek empire of Seleucus, the general of Alexander the Great. And we were looking earlier today at 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees. They'll say, “Year 150.” 150 of what? Of the counting of the Greeks.
Now, when does that begin? Around 312 or 311 BCE. And it's that "around" that's a bit of a problem, because there's different ways of reckoning it. And then, other Jews started counting around the second century CE or AD, they started counting from the creation of the world. Now, were they right about when the world was created? I don't think so, but that was a system that was used beginning around the 2nd century CE. Other Jews counted from the destruction of the Temple.
Joe: Which is what we have here.
Nehemia: So, Maimonides here says, “Year 1107 of the destruction of the Temple is the year following a shmita.” Okay, go.
Joe: And we add 70 years to that.
Nehemia: Wait, now what are you looking at? Tell people what you're looking at.
Joe: I have made a chart which you can download from my website for free, of every sabbatical year from the creation of Adam for six millennial days.
Nehemia: And that's based on your reckoning.
Joe: Hang on, no. That’s not right. It's based on 2 Kings 19:29. That alone will tell you when the sabbatical year is and the jubilee year.
Nehemia: Remind me what 2 Kings 19:29 is.
Joe: It's when Yehovah is speaking to Hezekiah through Isaiah, and he says, “Here's how you’ll know that the Assyrians are not going to invade. This year you shall eat what grows of itself. The following year, you shall eat what grows of the same. And in the third year, you shall plant, and sow, and harvest.”
Nehemia: And that tells us when the sabbatical year is?
Joe: That is the 49th year, which is the first year and the 50th year. There are two times in the entire Bible that you have a jubilee year mentioned in the Bible, and that's one of them.
Nehemia: That's not so clear to me that that's referring to a jubilee year, but let's say it is. Even so, then what year is that, based on our current system?
Joe: It's the most undisputed date in history that all recognized chronologists agree to, that the year Assyria invaded Israel...
Nehemia: Except that the Rabbis don't accept that the Temple was destroyed in 586 BCE.
Joe: We're not talking about 586, because this is the year 701 BC.
Nehemia: So, 701 BC. I understand. Guys, I've looked this up. The entire Assyrian chronology is based on, if I remember correctly, two eclipses that took place in Nineveh, and they're mentioned in Assyrian sources. And then scholars went along and said, “Okay, we can calculate eclipses pretty easily.” And they came up with these years 701 BC and then from that 586 BC. In other words, that's an extrapolation based on the Assyrian information.
Joe: The Assyrian chronology is the only one that we have that we can chronologically follow down to our time.
Nehemia: Well, we're not doing it based on our time, we're doing it based on the eclipses, from what I understand.
Joe: The Assyrian chronology comes down to our chronology today. But the Israelite or Jewish chronology, there's only two years that they can tie into the Assyrian one to know when the Israelite year…
Nehemia: In any event, there are a couple of points here. One is, we're not 100 percent sure that this is a jubilee; you're arguing that, and you could be right. And number two is, we're relying on the Assyrian chronology, which I'm not 100 percent convinced, I have to say. I'm not saying it's wrong. I would like somebody in the 21st century to go back and check all those dates and those calculations, because as far as I know, that was done in the 19th century, and I don't know that anybody's actually verified this. But let's just say for argument's sake it's correct.
The Jews have a different chronology, or I should say the Rabbis have a different chronology. In other words, the Rabbis pushed forward the destruction of the Temple by over 100 years, of the First Temple. I don't think they're right, because they essentially almost obliterate the Persian period. The chronology of these periods is not so clear, at least to me, let's put it that way. I think we're in much better grounding when we're in the 12th century in Maimonides, and he says 1107 from the destruction of the Temple. And we know the Temple was destroyed between 68 and 70. But what have you got here? What are you showing me here? You're showing me a chart that you've worked out, based on how many pieces of evidence, was it like 45 or something?
Joe: I believe I now have 45 artifacts, historical and biblical.
Nehemia: And so, for example, one of them we were looking at before is 1 Maccabees chapter 6. It talks about how there was a siege, and the siege was broken because they were in a sabbatical year and you're able to calculate, you believe, when that sabbatical year is.
Joe: 162 BC.
Nehemia: And so, you have 45 points like that, that you're saying line up. And based on that, you're showing me a chart.
Joe: 46 now, that I didn't know about Rambam here.
Nehemia: 46 now with Rambam. No, but it's 1107.
Joe: So, you had 70 to it, because of the destruction of the Temple.
Nehemia: Oh, so these are years CE that you're showing me in your chart?
Joe: Yes.
Nehemia: So, I'm looking here at 1176 and 1176 you have as a sabbatical year. Oh, here it is. Now, I'm confused. The modern rabbinical reckoning is based on what Maimonides said.
Joe: What you just read. Rambam just said, this year, whenever he wrote this...
Nehemia: He wrote it in 1107 of the destruction of the Temple. Guys, here's a bit of confusion. We're gonna get back to the 2300 days of hell, because that's the moneyball people want to hear about. But this is the kind of thing that actually is more interesting to me. Because look, if you're wrong... And you're willing to admit, right? You're not saying, “Thus sayeth the Lord.”
Joe: No.
Nehemia: You’re saying, “I've done calculations.” And if your calculations are wrong, they're wrong. So, in 2027, this discussion about Maimonides will still be relevant whether or not the world comes to an end, as we know it.
Okay, so he says in 1107, let me read it in Hebrew, “Lefi kheshbon ze tehi shana zo shehi shnat sheva me'ah ve'elef,” meaning 1107, “lekhorban motza'ey shevi'it,” is the going out of a sabbatical year. That has to do with this whole discussion of what it says in the Talmud. We're not gonna get into that.
Then he says, “This is what we rely upon.” In other words, he says, “Yeah, there's all these different calculations and opinions. But the bottom line is, there's a tradition.” And this tradition comes from the land of Israel, where people knew what they were talking about. Okay, so this is the part that excited me, and I was researching this before we ever discussed it. I was actually taking these two gentlemen on a tour of the Israel Museum, and they were part of this religious group that follows a sabbatical year in the 21st century in the United States. And there are two tombstones at the Israel Museum...Three tombstones really, but two of them that are on display mention a date based on the destruction of the Temple, and the date of the sabbatical year. Tell me how you found out about these tombstones.
Joe: Somebody told me about them in 2013. They said, “Did you know that these were in the museum?” And so, the next time I came to Israel I went and looked and found them, and was doing the happy dance again, ‘cause…
Nehemia: And you mentioned to me before you heard about them on my podcast, or something?
Joe: After that, I heard about them on your podcast, or maybe before, it was about the same time. At that time there was just a handful that I could figure out. And just this past winter, through the blessings of Yoel Halevy, he's translated...And I think I've now got 23 that confirm what I'm saying, and 30 in total. And these other ones, there are things strange about them, but I've included them.
Nehemia: And that's interesting, because when I did my research, and I'm looking here, it was around 2009 I was doing my research, there were only 17 tombstones that have been published, and more have been published since I did my research. So, you actually have access to information I didn't have access to. Well, I don't know how many, but you say around 29 or 30 tombstones and I had 17. Well, this is interesting.
So, this is what I was excited about. Here, I have this statement by Maimonides, and I can check it against the tombstones. He's saying there's a tradition from the land of Israel of when the sabbatical cycle is. He said, “All these opinions don't matter,” basically is what he says. We have a solid tradition that all the sages of the land of Israel agree on, and the Jews in the land of Israel, the population there have preserved this. And it's that the year 1107 of the destruction of the Temple is the year following a sabbatical cycle. Meaning it's year one, is what he's telling you, that 1107 of the destruction of the Temple is year one.
Now, one of the controversial questions is when was the Temple destroyed? Everyone knows it was destroyed in 70, but according to the classical rabbinical reckoning, the Temple was destroyed in the year 68. Maimonides says that's not so straightforward. It might be 69. It might even be 70 even, according to some Jewish sources. It gets complicated. One of the complications here is Jews were using this cycle of the destruction of the Temple. Well, when did the year begin? So, did the year begin at the first of Tishrei, or did the year begin at the first of Aviv, or the first of Nissan? Or did the year begin on the ninth of Av? For some Jewish communities into the 20th century, there were Jews who were still counting the destruction of the Temple, and they would begin each year with the ninth of Av when the Temple was destroyed. And they'd say, “Okay, now is year whatever of the destruction of the Temple.” So, there's a lot of complications here, but you say you have 45, now 46 points…
Joe: 46.
Nehemia: …that all point to a single chronology. When is the next sabbatical year according to your cycle?
Joe: 2023 starting at Aviv, until Aviv 2024 is the next sabbatical year.
Nehemia: That fit with what Maimonides says... In other words, the modern rabbinical reckoning is based on Maimonides. Yet you're saying Maimonides fits you, and not the modern rabbinical reckoning.
Joe: The modern rabbinical reckoning would be about a year-and-a-half before me. What you just read from Maimonides we just checked it, and it matched.
Nehemia: It matches your chart.
Joe: But you looked yourself. You saw.
Nehemia: It's true. I don't know what to say about that. This is a big breakthrough, what you've just shown me.
Joe: It’s huge, and we just did it together.
Nehemia: Live on air, guys. This is not planned. We've been sitting for four hours before this conversation, and I said, “I wish I had my notes in front of me,” but they were on this external hard drive I had to dig up. And I just finally looked at this now for the first time. And you're telling me it matches what you say, and not what the Rabbis say, even though they claim they're based on Maimonides. So, guys, we're going to do something really unusual, live on air. We have this book from Maimonides. It's called “Mishneh Torah,” also called “Yad Khazaka,” written in the year 1107 of the destruction of the Temple, according to my notes. My notes are based on the digital version of Maimonides. We're going to do something really powerful right now, sitting here, live. We're going to look up the manuscript of Maimonides.
And in the case of the manuscript of Maimonides we have something that's almost unprecedented in world history. We have what is virtually the autograph of the manuscript. And what do I mean by an “autograph?” When we look at the Book of Exodus, we have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. We don't have the one that Moses wrote with his own hand, that hasn't been discovered yet. That's true of almost every book written in history. It's certainly true of every printed book, right? In other words, when you wrote your book, “2300 Days of Hell,” you sat there, and you typed it on your computer. The autograph in this case would be the original Word doc, or whatever you used.
What we have with almost every manuscript, almost every book from history, is copies of copies of copies of copies. Occasionally, we have an autograph, which is the original written by the author. In the case of Maimonides' book “Yad Khazaka” or “Mishneh Torah,” we have something which is almost the autograph. What happened is, somebody sent their copy of his book to Maimonides and said, “Would you check this to make sure it's perfect?” And then at the end, Maimonides signed his name to it and said, “This was checked by me.” I mean, it's unprecedented in world history. So, what we could do right now live on air is, we're going to look up the manuscript that was checked by Maimonides himself to see if it actually says 1107, because we might look up the autograph and find out it says 1105 and someone changed it. And why did they change it? Because they wanted it to fit their theory.
Joe: I'm wringing my hands here in anticipation. What's going to happen?
Nehemia: Why are we doing this? I mean, normally people wouldn't bother to look it up, because yeah, you know, 1107 is probably right. It's online, it's in the printed edition. It's in every edition that's been known. But we have a rare opportunity here to check it with the original author. I mean, imagine that. Maimonides lived nearly 1,000 years ago, and we can check what he wrote with him directly.
Joe: Let’s do it.
Nehemia: That's unbelievable.
Joe: I'm excited.
Nehemia: And guys, look, until a couple of years ago, you couldn't do this because it wasn't available online. Now it is. All right, what we're doing is we're going to the Oxford University website, and we're going to look for manuscript Huntington 80. And that is the copy of the Mishneh Torah that was proofread by Maimonides himself. And we have an opportunity to do something today that in the history of scholarship was virtually impossible. We can actually look this up ourselves in the original, proofread by Maimonides.
Joe: Can I interject here while you...?
Nehemia: Please, absolutely.
Joe: In 2013, when I was presenting this teaching in Tennessee, a gentleman in the front row said he had these two tombstones, which we've talked about in the Israeli museum here, and I had not heard of them. I asked him to give me the dates, and we'll check it and compare it to my charts here, and see if they match, and stick my neck out, not sure what the results would be. They matched, and I was so happy. And I'm doing the same thing here right now with you, and I'm scared to death. But I'm thinking this could be amazing...
Nehemia: It could be.
Joe: Or detrimental to everything.
Nehemia: Okay, I have some bad news.
Joe: Oh-oh.
Nehemia: There are only two sections of Maimonides' Mishneh Torah that have survived, and they don't include this section. So, we're out of luck. So, I want to understand here. The rabbinical calculation is off from what you calculate by a number of years, by a year-and-a-half, you said?
Joe: Year-and-a-half.
Nehemia: In other words, if you Google online... let's do it. Google on when is shmita? They're gonna tell us the year which is supposed to be based on Maimonides. Yet you're telling us Maimonides actually fits your understanding, not theirs, so what am I missing here?
Joe: I don't know. I haven't researched this, it's all brand new to me. I'm so excited.
Nehemia: Chabad.org says that September 7th, 2021, is the beginning of a shmita year. And you're saying it's sometime in the fall of...
Joe: 2023, so that's a year-and-a-half, but they start at Tishrei one, not Aviv. That explains the half-year part. The year before, so this goes back to the destruction of the Temple, which is what we're talking about.
Nehemia: Wait a minute now. So, they're getting 2021 based on the destruction of the Temple in the year 69 or 68.
Joe: Exactly.
Nehemia: And you're taking Maimonides and saying, “Hey, if the destruction of the Temple is the year 70, this is what we end up with in Maimonides.” Okay, the question is, are you right about understanding Maimonides? In other words, Maimonides may have been wrong, but he may have thought the Temple was destroyed in the year 68, right?
Joe: Oh, you see, now I don't know.
Nehemia: This is where things get a bit complicated. Maimonides at some point is going to give us his year of the destruction of the Temple. See, guys, this is a complicated topic.
Joe: It's not easy, and I admit that. I'm basing my understanding on the fact that I have that the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. And I also have historical stuff about Rabbi Yossi who fudged the books in order to make Simon Bar Kokhba the messiah.
Nehemia: So, tell us about Rabbi Yossi just very briefly.
Joe: Rabbi Yossi wrote the history of the Jewish people up until 133 AD, or Common Era, and he was trying to help Rabbi Akiva prove that Simon Bar Kokhba is the messiah. In order to do that, he had to change the dates. And what they're doing is using the Daniel 9 prophecy to do this, which is so unbelievable. And this is the first time that the Daniel 9 prophecy was ever used by anybody to prove the messiah was coming.
Nehemia: Wait, wait, stop. What are you talking about? Every Christian knows that the strongest proof for Jesus Christ is Daniel 9:25 and on. And you're telling me 100 years after Yeshua, Christians weren't bringing Daniel 9?
Joe: I'm telling you that not one Apostle, not Yeshua himself, used Daniel 9:24-27 to prove that he was the Messiah, not one.
Nehemia: Hold on a second. Are you a believer in Yeshua?
Joe: I believe in Yeshua.
Nehemia: Okay, so you're coming from a New Testament belief perspective.
Joe: Yes.
Nehemia: And you're saying Daniel 9:24-27 was not used by Yeshua himself or his disciples - I'm just repeating what you said - to prove the timing of Yeshua. So, wait a minute. Everybody knows in the Christian world and in the Hebrew Roots world, that that points to Yeshua.
Joe: Yes, but everyone in the Christian world also knows that Jesus was born at Christmas.
Nehemia: Well, he wasn't?
Joe: No.
Nehemia: Go on, I'm kidding.
Joe: Everyone also knows that Easter eggs and bunnies are the Passover.
Nehemia: But the Easter eggs with the chocolate are so delicious. No, really, help me out here. Who was the first Christian who came up with this idea?
Joe: I got my information from J. Paul Tanner, “Introduction of the Messianic Interpretation of the Development of Daniel's 70-week Prophecy.” He developed it, he's talking about it in the first Church Father, and I'm trying to find it here.
Nehemia: This is in your book, “2300 days of Hell?”
Joe: This is chapter 5 of my book, “The 2300 Days of Hell.” Irenaeus in the year 180 uses the Daniel 9 prophecy to prove that Jesus is messiah.
Nehemia: And you're saying before Irenaeus, according to this scholar you're quoting...
Joe: Irenaeus is 180 Common Era.
Nehemia: Before Irenaeus, no one quoted this prophecy, is what you're saying?
Joe: That's what I'm saying. That's what I recall. I may have more details in the book here that I'm forgetting right now.
Nehemia: And guys, I just want to make it clear. If you believe in your heart that Yeshua himself taught Daniel 9, we're not disproving that.
Joe: Yes, I am.
Nehemia: How are you disproving it?
Joe: I'm disproving it because none of the Apostles nor Yeshua…
Nehemia: How can you prove what someone didn't say?
Joe: …ever used it, because it's not recorded in the Gospels of almost everything that he said during his three-and-a-half-year ministry here on earth.
Nehemia: But isn't it possible there are things he taught that aren't recorded?
Joe: Oh, so now we're going to the Oral Torah?
Nehemia: No, no. In other words, at the end of Luke it talks about how he taught about himself all the things in the law and the Prophets concerning himself. And what you're bringing up is a really interesting point. Guys, here I am the Karaite, sitting here in Jerusalem, trying to convince him of the classical Christian arguments for Yeshua. And he's telling me, “No, Yeshua never said that.” So, for example, Psalm 22, the piercing in the hands is never quoted in the New Testament. And what you can say is that no one in the New Testament explicitly said that that referred to Yeshua. But what you can't really prove is they didn't believe it referred to Yeshua. You see what I'm saying?
Joe: I understand what you're saying.
Nehemia: Does that make any sense? In other words, I can't prove what they didn't say, I can only refer to what they did say. And then, you end up with what's called the argument from silence, which I think is a powerful argument when you're dealing with something as central as the piercing of the hands in Psalm 22 and Daniel 9, the chronology, because if you think about it, so we have this expression in Hebrew “The silence is screaming.” In other words, we have an argument from silence here, but the silence is screaming. They talk about the law…
Joe: So, why didn't they bring it up?
Nehemia: Well, okay, so this is the argument. Let's say Psalm 22, the piercing of the hands. Guys, go Google that for yourselves and study about that. And I'm not trying to convince anybody not to believe in Yeshua, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is, that would be such a strong argument for Yeshua. How is it they didn't bring that argument in the New Testament itself? And they brought from the very same Psalm, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” The dividing of the clothes, but the piercing of the hands they didn't bring. I mean, it makes me think that maybe that was an argument that was brought up later. And at the time, people were reading it in Hebrew, and they were like, “Well, this is about lions.” And what you're saying is Daniel 9 was only brought up 150 years after Yeshua.
Joe: Well, 130 by Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Yossi.
Nehemia: Well, they were doing a different chronology.
Joe: Yes.
Nehemia: Guys, here's one of the things I want you to do. If you know of a source that predates Irenaeus, a Christian source, or any kind of source that quotes Daniel 9 to prove Yeshua, go to the website, nehemiaswall.com and post in the comments.
Joe: I'd love to read it.
Nehemia: One of the things I love about you is you're saying, “Hey, if I'm wrong, prove me wrong.” And you're willing to admit you could be wrong.
Joe: That's the motto of my website, “Prove all things.”
Nehemia: I love that.
Joe: And I've learned a lot from you, but you've also said about me, “I just want to find the truth,” and that's all I want.
Nehemia: And guys, I gotta say, Daniel 9, this is not my field of expertise. I'm letting Joe present his position here, and if he's wrong, please tell us. I'd love to know. So, what you're saying is really radical. You're saying that the Christians weren't the first ones to use Daniel 9 to prove the coming of a messiah. It was actually the Jews to prove Bar Kokhba. Wow, you just blew my mind.
Joe: And then 50 years later, Irenaeus gets that idea, and he goes with it. And then, 20 years after that Clement of Alexandria, and then Tertullian in 203...
Nehemia: But basically, after Irenaeus it's established.
Joe: And Hippolytus, and then it's Julius Africanus, who finally came up with this theory of what we call the gap theory today.
Nehemia: Okay, tell us in three sentences, what's the gap theory?
Joe: The gap theory is that Daniel 9 is talking about Jesus. And three-and-a-half years is yet to come. So, between his death and his coming back is this 2000-year gap theory, and that's why we have the rapture. It's gonna happen at any moment now, because it could be today. And I'm rolling my eyes as I say that, is because of this Julius Africanus.
Nehemia: And I want to try to be respectful of those who believe that the rapture may happen tonight. But that’s my perspective.
Joe: Can I say something? I respect your respect, but I’m from the Christian side of things, “Get off your tukhes and go and research this stuff.” The rapture theory is a theory, it started in the 1800s. So anyway, that's just my thing. But back to the Daniel 9.
Nehemia: This is some deep stuff, guys. Daniel 9, if it doesn't refer to Bar Kokhba, which I never thought, and if it doesn't refer to Yeshua, who does it refer to? Who else could it be?
Joe: Well, it tells you in the very first part of Daniel 9:25. After seven shavua.
Nehemia: Shvu'im, yeah. Weeks.
Joe: Which is seven times 49, which is 343 years. When did this start? It started with Moses from the going forth of the command. That was the command to Moses to go and get the Israelites out of Egypt. What year was that?
Nehemia: I don't know what year it is. I always say 1450, give or take 100 years.
Joe: Yeah, so by doing a sabbatical jubilee chronology, from the creation of Adam, it's 1386 BC.
Nehemia: Is when Moses took the Israelites out of Egypt?
Joe: Which is approximately when he was given the command. The year is 1379 of the actual Exodus. So, sometime before that exodus date is when he was told to go and get them. How many years? We can argue over the years.
Nehemia: Okay, so we have to accept that the exodus was in the 14th century and not the 15th century. And guys, this is one of the things, when was the exodus? Well, ask secular scholars and they will say there was no exodus. And then they'll say, the Israelites first came into the land in 1200 BC. What do they base that on? On the Merneptah Stele. I mean, there's all kinds of things here that we're in an era of history with a lot we don't know. You have to be very careful and take these things with a grain of salt. And your understanding is 1386 is the beginning of the count of Daniel?
Joe: 1386, yes.
Nehemia: And when does it end?
Joe: It ends 3,430 years later, which is the year 2045 or 2044.
Nehemia: Wait a minute.
Joe: Hang on, let me just state clearly. When was the Exodus? I've done my...
Nehemia: So, the messiah is gonna come in 2044?
Joe: Hang on. I've done my calculations based on Genesis 3. And I've done the chronology up until they entered the land, and you can get it all from Genesis 3. You don't have to rely on external sources. It's all right there.
Nehemia: And all of this is free on your website for those who want more detail.
Joe: That's right. And I have it in the book, “Remembering the Sabbatical Year of 2016.” All the research is there, you can double check it. And I'm not here to sell books. I don't care about that.
Nehemia: But we only have a short period of time. If you want more details, guys, you can go to his website and get his book. Go on.
Joe: So, 1386 is the beginning of that jubilee cycle when Yehovah told Moses to go and get My people. So, he goes, and he gets the people. Then it says, “seven shavua later, seven jubilee cycles later...”
Nehemia: So, you interpret shavua there, week, as a jubilee cycle of 49 years. That's a key to your interpretation.
Joe: Yes, if you look it up, just how I learned it, somebody mentioned it, which tipped me off, so I looked it up. The word "weeks" is the Feast of Weeks. What's the Feast of Weeks? Shavuot. It's 49 days plus one. The jubilee cycle is 49 years plus one. It is exactly the same.
Nehemia: And something in your reckoning happened in the time of King David. Tell us about that.
Joe: King David?
Nehemia: Wasn't he the Messiah, according to your...?
Joe: Hang on. 343 years, it's seven shavua, brings you to the time of King David.
Nehemia: Wait, where do you get 349? Is that 7 times 49?
Joe: 7 Times 49, you're right.
Nehemia: 7 times 49 is 343, according to my calculator here.
Joe: Yes, right, 343 on to 1386.
Nehemia: 1386 minus 343 brings us to 1043.
Joe: 1043 is the start of the jubilee cycle, and David was born in 1040. So, from the going forth of the command, seven shavuot later brings you to the messiah, the prince.
Nehemia: And that refers to David?
Joe: That's King David, not Yeshua. So, this fits, Daniel 9 now fits, and I didn't have to fudge anything or make stuff up.
Nehemia: Wait a minute, okay. So, you believe Daniel 9 refers first to the coming of David in 1040 BC or so, but also to something in the year 20...
Joe: Hang on, you're jumping ahead now.
Nehemia: Look, there's a lot going on here and I want to get the big picture first.
Joe: Okay, so now 69 shavua later brings you to the year 69 times 49, whatever that number is.
Nehemia: 3,381.
Joe: And that will bring you to the year 1996.
Nehemia: Okay, what happened in 1996?
Joe: Nothing. It's another sabbatical year, or a jubilee year. But that's the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel.
Nehemia: 1996 is the beginning of the 70th year?
Joe: That's right. That's why when you asked me in the beginning, I said, “Yes, we have already started.”
Nehemia: Okay, and then it ends 49 years later in 2045.
Joe: 2044. 2045 being the jubilee, which is the first year of the seventh millennium.
Nehemia: So, what will happen in 2044 or ‘45?
Joe: Daniel 9 says that the second Mashiakh, not messiah, not Jesus, Mashiakh, which is the anointed. Who is the anointed? Israel is the anointed. All of Israel, whether they're keeping Torah or not, whether they know about it or not, these are the DNA descendants of the 12 tribes. They are the anointed. They are the apple of Yehovah's eye. It says, “They will be cut off,” and the King James says, “for not,” and I never knew what that was until I looked it up. And if you look up the Hebrew of that verse, it says, “They will be as if they never were.”
Nehemia: Okay, wow. Mind-blown again. I'm not saying I'm agreeing with this, but this is a different paradigm than...
Joe: Now his gears are turning in his brain and it's awesome.
Nehemia: I'm trying to follow what you're saying. So, 2020-2027, 90 percent of Israelites...
Joe: It says, “In the middle of 70th jubilee, the cycle of the 70th shavua...”
Nehemia: Okay, and that's where you get 2020.
Joe: …is 2020.
Nehemia: Okay. But then, what happens in 2044 and 2045? I don't understand. The final 10 percent will be killed?
Joe: No.
Nehemia: What will happen?
Joe: There's a remnant that's brought back to the land.
Nehemia: In 2044 or 2045.
Joe: This is not as easy to explain in five seconds.
Nehemia: No, I understand, but we need the five-second version.
Joe: They're gonna be brought back.
Nehemia: Wait, hand me your book. Okay, guys. He's got a book here that is...
Joe: 750 plus pages. It’s over 700 footnotes.
Nehemia: Over 700 pages, and we're trying to get this in a podcast. If you want more you can get this book, read it on his website. In the podcast version, what will happen in 2044-2045?
Joe: 2044-2045 is just about the beginning of the seventh millennium. The seventh millennium, in the book of Hebrews, “They shall not enter into his rest.” What's that rest? It's called the Sabbath.
Nehemia: Wait, is this what Christians call the “second coming?”
Joe: I'm not sure.
Nehemia: In other words, will Yeshua come down to earth and reign as king in 2044 or 2045 according to your understanding?
Joe: Categorically, no. I can say that with complete confidence.
Nehemia: So, what will happen?
Joe: Because now Daniel 9 is not used as your proof that Yeshua is coming back. That's a whole other thing, we don't have time for all that.
Nehemia: Wait a minute, you don't believe Yeshua is coming back?
Joe: Not in this current jubilee cycle, no.
Nehemia: When will he come back, according to your understanding?
Joe: Okay, so my understanding is that Yeshua is Yehovah, and they're the same person and that we killed Yehovah on the cross. Not the Jews, we, all of us. And that he is the one who's going to marry Israel after the seventh Millennium is over.
Nehemia: Wait, so it's another 1,000 years?
Joe: Yes, at the beginning of the eighth millennium. That's what Sukkot is about. That’s what the eighth day is about.
Nehemia: Archaeologists in the future that uncover this podcast, you heard it here for the first time in podcast history, that according to Joe Dumond's understanding... So, help me out here with math. 3045 is when Yeshua is gonna come?
Joe: The end of the seventh Millennium is... I have it in the charts. And again, they're free to download, is the year 3024.
Nehemia: So, 3024…
Joe: 3024 of the Common Era.
Nehemia: 3024 of the Common Era... what will happen then?
Joe: Okay, so in the New Testament, in Revelation it says Satan will be let loose for a little while at the end of the seventh millennium. Then he's gonna be thrown in the lake of fire with the false prophet and those who don't believe. And then, this is the seven days of the feast of Sukkot. The eighth day is the most important holy day. And it's the one that those who are keeping Torah now from Christianity, they disrespect it so much. They fly or they drive, or they check out of the hotel. It's the most important day, it's the day when God, Yehovah, will come and dwell with man and live here on Earth. It's the start of the eighth millennia.
Nehemia: So, Yehovah is gonna come live on earth in the year 3020...
Joe: After 3024. What day exactly? I don't know.
Nehemia: Okay, so it's the end of the world as we know it in 2020 to 2027, but we still have another 1000 years to put up with...
Joe: With King David as our messiah, as our anointed prince to rule over Israel.
Nehemia: In 2027?
Joe: Well, the seventh millennium starts in 2045.
Nehemia: Whoa, because David’s coming back?
Joe: David's gonna be brought back from the dead, yeah.
Nehemia: And you're just mentioning this now. The physical, literal David is going to be raised from the dead, which I believe he will be, but I have no idea when. But you believe in 2045 David will reign as King on earth?
Joe: Yes.
Nehemia: Okay, and will David tell the world that Yeshua is the messiah?
Joe: I don't know what he's gonna say.
Nehemia: Here, I'll be honest with you. If David comes and reigns on earth, Jews will say, “Huh, not what we expected. But, but yeah, sure, we have no problem.” But one of the questions will be, “David, will you now tell the Hebrew Roots people and the Messianics and the Christians that they were wrong?” What will David say?
Joe: I don't know what David will say.
Nehemia: Will he say, “My son, my descendant, Yeshua was the messiah and is the messiah but now there are two Messiahs?” I'm confused here, Joe. This is heavy stuff.
Joe: It's Christianity that is confusing stuff by misinterpreting what the Bible says, what the Torah says. The Holy Days of Leviticus 23 reveal the whole plan of salvation if people would just learn what they say, what it means, why do we do these holy days and keep them. I don't do this to be Jewish. I have no inclination to convert to Judaism.
Nehemia: Yeah, but you're from the 10 lost tribes, you believe, right?
Joe: I'm not trying to be somebody I'm not. All I want to do is obey God.
Nehemia: Okay, let's get back to the title here, 2300 days of hell begins when?
Joe: 2020, in the middle of the final jubilee cycle.
Nehemia: The two witnesses, when does that take place?
Joe: At the end of the 2300 days, which is 2026 at trumpets.
Nehemia: Joseph’s seven years of plenty.
Joe: That starts with the 2300 days of hell in 2020.
Nehemia: In 2020?
Joe: In 2020. It’s seven years for the Babylonian…
Nehemia: And seven years of famine, when does that...?
Joe: That's the Babylonian said to have been destroyed when the two witnesses start their work in 2026.
Nehemia: In 2026?
Joe: In 2026.
Nehemia: And so, the seven years of famine begin in 2026?
Joe: Yes, there's no rain on earth for three-and-a-half years. Then after that, the two witnesses are killed. And then after that begins the final three-and-a-half-year tribulation.
Nehemia: Guys, you heard it here. If you want information, the book is called “2300 Days of Hell.” Joseph Dumond, sightedmoon.com.
Joe, we had an incredible conversation here. We covered an immense amount of ground. Any key points that you feel we missed? Because look, I was guiding the discussion in areas that I'm interested in. There are other parts I'm interested in with these tombstones. Guys, the tombstones are a fascinating subject I hope in the future to do more research on. Right now, I have to say I'm open to hearing these... You know, I'm open, right? I mean, I want to know the truth.
Joe: The great thing I love about you, Nehemia, is that you are searching for the truth, and you don't care where it takes you. And that's what I love about you, and you've ingrained that in me, so I admire that. I only want the truth as well. I'm tired of being lied to. So, I want to know the truth. I want to first thank you for allowing me to share this with you. Then I want to thank you for listening and challenging me. I'm challenged all the time, so I thank you for that.
Nehemia: Hey, look, let's put it this way. You could be wrong, but if you're right and people say, “Hey, I want to take some action,” what can they do?
Joe: Keep the Sabbath. Obey the Sabbath.
Nehemia: The weekly Shabbat.
Joe: The weekly Sabbath, from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.
Nehemia: Amen, I'm with you on that.
Joe: Keep the holy days. I'll even give a little grace if you're on different calendars. But I'm saying, keep the holy days according to Leviticus 23, and don't add to it according to the crescent moon and the barley being Aviv. Nehemia and I agree on that. We may differ from year to year, which we did in the past.
Nehemia: Or to the best of your ability, is what you're saying.
Joe: Yes. Then keep the sabbatical year. And for different people it means different things. Well, I don't have a farm. Yeah, but you need food. So, I'm saying store food, because you're told to store food.
Nehemia: So, you say, keep the sabbatical year. So, when you go to Walmart or whatever you have in Canada...
Joe: We've got Walmart.
Nehemia: And you want to buy fruit, so you won't buy fruit that was grown in Argentina in 2023, is that right?
Joe: Well, that's Joe Dumond theology now. It says to stock up food. It says don't plant and don't harvest that year. This is Joe Dumond theology, I've taken it a step further. I will not eat stuff that's harvested and sold in the supermarket that year.
Nehemia: Even if it's outside the land of Israel, because that's probably one of the main parts we disagree with.
Joe: Now we're on another subject.
Nehemia: I'll just briefly say that my understanding, and I think the standard Jewish understanding, is that sabbatical land laws are only for the land of Israel. In fact, to the point where in one of the things you can see at the Israel Museum, I don't know if you're aware of this, but there's a giant mosaic…
Joe: Yes, I am.
Nehemia: … at the Israel Museum.
Joe: It's from Medina.
Nehemia: No, it's from near Beit She’an, and it's a place called Rekhov.
Joe: It's directly opposite the two tombstones.
Nehemia: That's correct. It's a giant mosaic and it mentions the sabbatical year. And it's actually delineating the areas in which you're required to observe the sabbatical year, and others which you're not, within the Land of Israel. There are areas where it says “Well, you really don't have to keep it for these areas.” And this was at the entrance of a synagogue. It's an incredible document from around the sixth or seventh century CE.
One of the really important things historically is, it lists all the different things that are grown. And so, it gives you a catalogue of all the produce of that area. And it's incredible, just the richness of the land. And so, they observed it in some areas of the Beit She’an Valley and other areas they didn't. So, the point is, within the Jewish tradition or interpretation, it was understood as the land of Israel and the Rabbis went even further and said, “Even within the land of Israel, it's not everything in every area.” And you're saying, “No, it's worldwide.”
Joe: I'm saying that based on Leviticus 19.
Nehemia: And if you are growing, I don't know, mint leaves in a base in Antarctica to put in your tea, that also is sabbatical year produce and shouldn't be...
Joe: Are you harvesting it? You're just taking one. You're allowed to go out and take what you need to eat.
Nehemia: Okay, so you're talking about commercially harvested things.
Joe: Yeah. Just don't plant and don't sell. But this next one's gonna be a challenge, because there's a lot of stuff that's supposed to start in 2020, so the next one's in 2023. It's going to be hard.
Nehemia: Would you end with a prayer?
Joe: Our father Yehovah, our powerful and great Creator. Thank you for this day, Father, for being able to share these things with Nehemia, to get this off my chest. To get this out there so people can hear, learn, and understand. So, thank you for that. I pray that You bless them to learn these things. Challenge them, Father, to go and do their own research. Don't believe me, don't believe Nehemia, don't believe the Rabbis, don't believe Aunt Sue. Help them to prove it for themselves by doing their own research. And we're showing them all the stuff that we have, help them to understand it. So, I ask, Father, that you bless them. Open up their eyes to Your truth, not mine, not anybody else's but Yours alone, and help them to obey You, because that's all that counts. Amen.
Nehemia: Amen. Shalom. You have been listening to Hebrew Voices with Nehemia Gordon. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon’s Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com. We hope the above transcript has proven to be a helpful resource in your study. While much effort has been taken to provide you with this transcript, it should be noted that the text has not been reviewed by the speakers and its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. If you would like to support our efforts to transcribe the teachings on NehemiasWall.com, please visit our support page. All donations are tax-deductible (501c3) and help us empower people around the world with the Hebrew sources of their faith! Subscribe to "Nehemia Gordon" on your favorite podcast app! Related Posts: Sources Mentioned:
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The questions about Israel’s return to the land (40 min timestamp) answered in Joseph Dumond’s more recent books. Sabbatical year 2030 C.E. is the return
Ephraim & Manasseh are a couple of tribes, I am guessing, if my memory serves me well, that Joseph likens the UK, Canada & the U.S. to…
The Gospels do NOT say ‘mostly everything’ Yeshua said. In fact, Scripture says it CAN’T contain everything as there would not be room enough. If there is not room enough for “everything” then there is not room enough for “mostly everything”. John 21:25 says of Yeshua (by John) “…[He] did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”
You can’t prove Daniel was not used since it’s not written down.
Wow. That was an excellent point to bring up.
I heard this interview many moons ago and it I were a Christian as in the days way back when this would have sent shivers and anxt down my spine, how ever looking at this there is too much spirituality in this to give it any credence. This means spiritually that and that means spiritually this. And for God to gather Israel again to just plunder them again is too much for me. Zechariah days 2/3 would be destroyed And a third would pass through the fire , and this fire reference is clear Holocaust reference to me. Why gather them again and pass them through the fire again??? I don’t see any other disposals of Israel any more, rather I see Israel getting strong and more established as the prophecies state. That’s where my faith is, not in some fancy words of another wizard trying his game of crystal ball religion.
In two places in the renewed-covenant. Here’s one that speaks of Daniel 9.
““So when you see the ‘abomination that lays waste,’ spoken of by Dani’ĕl the prophet, set up in the set-apart place” – he who reads, let him understand –”
Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24:15
I am hoping for someone who can tell me further about mysteries of two witnesses and scrolling dead sea
Behold, your two witnesses are Nehemia Gordon and Joseph Dumond.
“Then I heard a certain set-apart one speaking (Joseph). And another set-apart one (Nehemia) said to that certain one who was speaking, “Till when is the vision, concerning that which is continual, and the transgression that lays waste, to make both the set-apart ones and the host to be trampled under foot” (Dan 8:13)?
“And I shall give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy 1,260 days, clad in sackcloth” (Rev 11:3).
Biblical numerology would suggest the year of the Temple Destruction would be 69 AD. 6=man 9=judgment & wrath. Since nobody really knows, that’s the year I would go with. 70 represents Salvation & Spiritual perfection. (Look at Ezekiel 9:6.) I’m impressed with Mr. Dumont’s chart. Way to go Joe! ?? I don’t agree with Armstrong theology and I think it caused Joe to get sidetracked. Don’t know of any 1rst century sources showing Daniel 9 as evidence for Yeshua. I must say,… “THE SILENCE IS SCREAMING!” ?
Shalom Nehemia,
I’m a huge supporter of you’re work and i quote you all the time when i’m in discussions but this guest was a total miss.
I appreciate the desire for Truth that Joseph has, and I was with him up to a point, and continued to give him the benefit of the doubt – but respectfully, I must point out some things as it sure seems he has compounded some errors and gone off on a tangent. Not every mention of ‘weeks’ in the Tanakh can be explained or decoded by Daniel’s 70 sevens riddle. Michael Rood’s “The Chronological Gospels” does a great job disproving the three and one-half years ministry of Yeshua in the introduction of that landmark work. Additionally, it uncovers the actual prophesy of the 70 sevens, how the Most Holy (Ark) got anointed, and when. Regarding the Ten Lost Tribes, there is a ton of anecdotal evidence about certain groups that have gravitated into the English speaking world of today – but it can’t be proven or known by man as there is no baseline YDNA known to exist from the patriarchs of those male offspring of Jacob, and no written authentic histories exist to my knowledge. Whomever their descendants are, it’s no Claim to Fame – but rather a NAME OF SHAME if they do not come back to YeHoVaH and leave false religions to the dead past that they are. In a number of places Joseph went ‘A Bridge Too Far’, but I loved his summation! He got back on track with the message he originally started with, the one Ron Wyatt had as well as myself and so many others – and they echo the message of the Neviim (prophets) in the Tanakh! Love the Father/Creator by doing Justice according to His Instructions, Show Mercy to your fellow human beings, and Walk Humbly before YHVH. I appreciate the courage of NG and JD – YeHoVaH bless!
… and by the way, Yeshua’s message was also the same as the Neviim with additional ‘tips’ or ‘Be Attitudes’ for keeping Torah.
dumong’s view that jesus was יהוה and god the father was off in heaven was armstrong’s teaching. this is disproved many times in isaiah where יהוה says ‘and no other’. mark 12:29 where jesus recites the shema שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד…shows he didn’t believe there is a god the father and he, jesus, was his son.
We must take in account what Jesus meant by “one” in Mark 12:29 for Jesus defines “one” in John chapter 17:
https://sumofthyword.com/2017/02/17/trinity-true-or-false/
Shalom,
Nehemiah asked that anyone leave a comment which shows that Daniel 9 was believed to be above the Messiah prior to 2nd century AD.
Qumran scroll 11Q13 explicitly refers to the Messiah as Melchizedek, and also the “prince” of Daniel 9.
I am convinced the Qumran community were legitimate Aaronic priests, and that the Temple priests of the first century (and earlier) were a corrupt order. They were not Essenes. I also am convinced that “John the Baptist” was an esteemed member of that community. Using the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as many other historical evidences, I am very sure that I have worked out the complete Qumran calendar down to the day. This would include the Sabbatical and Jubilee cycles as well. I agree with Joseph Dumond on the Sabbatical cycle. However I disagree with his dates for the Jubilee. I believe the Jubilee would have occurred in 56-57 AD, and would make 2016 the 49th year, and 2017 the Jubilee.
I don’t have a forum to present everything in right now. If anyone is interested please let me know how I can share this with you. I think you will be astonished at how well the Qurman calendar fits Biblical history, fits Daniel’s 70 7s, and explains the “Passover paradox” in the gospels.
Hi Matt,
Iam very interested by in reading your findings. How can one get their hands on them?
You can read scroll 11Q13 online. I have seen translations by various scholars and they all read very similarly.
I am working on finishing an informal paper on the Qumran calendar. Let me know how I can send it to you when it is done.
Nehemia, first of all, thank you so much for interviewing Joseph Dumond and not being afraid to broadcast a man with such controversial view points. There are always things to be gleaned from such a conversation. I went to Joseph Dumond’s website afterward and read a few things.
With that said, I also found that many of his “conclusions” are very far fetched. But he leaves it to us to check it for ourselves – very good.
I wrote a book myself, with the many things that Yehovah has shown me over the years. I counted up the years from creation until today, as far as I could find numbers in the Scriptures. I got all the way to the decree of Cyrus to rebuild Jerusalem. There I switched to the secular year counting found in history books. I came up with the year 2032 to be the end of the 6th millennium. But I know that this number is not accurate. It can only be an approximation because the year count of the kings of Israel is only by years rounded and not accurate by years plus months. I also wrote about “Who is Israel”, the rapture and so forth – everything backed by Scripture of course. But the crown jewel in my book is the explanation of the “Sacrifices”, which are totally misunderstood in 99.9% of Christianity. For this and many other reasons I am no longer a Christian. But I have not switched over to Judaism either. Both have many traditions contrary to the Bible, as you all very well know.
,2033 is the start of the next tetrad.
Hi Ralf,
I would be very interested in reading your findings. How can one get their hands on them?
First, Many Thanks for posting this interview with Joseph Dumond, It was most engaging even if I was a little befuddled by the end of the podcast : )
Anyway, a few points did stick out that I could wrap my head around…
1. Mr. Dumond stated that nations like America and Canada were part of the twelve tribes of Israel? No, these are Gentile nations, which may have individuals that are from among the 12 tribes, but that does not make the nations as a whole part of the 12 tribes. This does not preclude the possibility that these nations will be judged in the manner and time-frame that Dumond proposes.
2. King David ruling the Millennial kingdom before the return of the Messiah (Yeshua)? I agree with Dumond that King David will be resurrected and perhaps even be ? ruler in the Kingdom. However, in the Christian context, the Messiah will be The Ruler during the Millennial time frame. It is at the end of the 1000 years when what is described as the New Heaven & New Earth epoch begins and the old earth passes away.
3. The concept of the Rapture was mentioned in passing during the podcast. So, this is more of a question for Mr. Dumond. Does he believe that the New Testament is also scripture? If so, what is his take on the following passages that Christians use to refer to the Rapture?
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 & 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
With that said, I do understand that there are various schools of thought (and much heated debate) over the timing of the Rapture,i.e. Pre, Mid and Post-Tribulation. So if he meant that the Pre-Trib school of thought did not come out until the 18th or 19th century, then I do get that.
Overall, I must say it is very tempting to date set end of the world scenarios. I have been guilty of embracing this mindset in my own life. The problem is that, as Nehemiah has astutely pointed out, it always ends badly. I would also venture to say, even if Mr. Dumond happens to be right this time, with 2020 being the start of it all hitting the fan, that still does not mean he is correct in the rest of his assertions.
With that said, I do agree with Mr. Dumond that we are living in the end times, and things are about to get real interesting. I just can’t say when.
Shalom
“Who can count the dust of Jacob,
Or number the fourth part of Israel?
Let me die the death of the upright,
And let my end be like his!”
Numbers 23:10
What will Joseph Dumond do after 2020 has come and gone and his false predections are exposed as self-deception? Will he make excuses about his calculations (and set a new date) or will he be true to himself and repent from the misguided efforts of his own imagination?
Hopefully he will come back on Hebrew Voices and make amends for bringing reproach and ridicule to the Holy Oracles of Yehovah.
shalom.
Good question, not long to go.
Another question pops into my head whilst reading your post. I wonder how it can be 7 years of plent , at the same time at the whole 12 tribes being destroyed, then, 7 years of famine, aren’t most of the tribes gone? If dumond is paralleling Joseph’s time in Israel the Jews weren’t hurt that way at all??
Well, 2020 is now here. WHO Declared a worldwide pandemic on March 10, 2020. The very same day we kept Passover which was a month earlier than most others.April and again in June 2020, the UN warned that 135 to 270 million would be in a biblical famine by Dec 31, 2020. We have since 2005 said May 31st was teh start of teh 2300 Days followed by the 3 1/2 years of the two witnesse and then the 31/2 years of the tribulation. Ending at Atonement in 2033.
George Floyd was killed MAy 25, 2020. By May 31st there were over 200 cities across the USA in riots and being looted. This would then grow around the world. Black and white militias formed and people were shot and killed in these riots. Some just for being white. Other of ANTIFA waging war on the USA. Glenn Beck has repeatedly said we are on the verge if not already in the first stages of Civil War. The Democrats and Rupulicans, the left and the right at at each others throats. Now a new supreme judge is being rushed through.
The Atlantic Mag says this election could be very close and chaotic and result is civil war as the count drags out over months.
You asked what I would do if nothing happened in 2020. I ask you the same question. What will you do when all these things we said were coming, come to pass?
I was going to take down the web site, if nothing happened. Well, this year of 2020, a ton of things have happened and it only going to get worse. So what are you going to do now?
Daniel 8 is a vision of the Goat and the Ram squaring off, right? And the interpretation is given by an angel, so how is Dumond relating the vision to Moses? Where’s Moses in the Goat or the Ram? Moses isn’t even mentioned in the vision at all.
Now in Daniel 9 comes the bit about the 70 7s, and Daniel is told that from the going forth to restore and rebuild I Jerusalem is 70 7s, just where was Jerusalem in ruin in Moses day?
1. The 2300 is period of no function, it is a period of uncleaness, so before that time it was clean, then it becomes unclean and then it’s restored. Where is the temple in its clean stage in jerusalem at Moses day?
2 having trouble equating Moses in the Goat and Ram vision? Just where is he in that vision.
3 70 7s are determined upon your people to do things future from Daniels time, notice it doesn’t say 70 7s have been determined, past tense, it’s future tense.
“Seventy weeks (70 x 49 years = 3,430 years + -1386 = 2045, the 120th Jubilee) are decreed for your people (12 tribes of Israel) and for your set-apart city, to put an end to the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover crookedness, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the most set-apart.
Know, then, and understand: from the going forth of the command (-1386 at burning bush in 51st Jubilee cycle) to restore and build Jerusalem (six times in Exo 3:10-18) until Messiah the Prince (-1040 King David born in 57th Jubilee cycle) is seven weeks (7 x 49 years = 343 years from 51st to 57th Jubilee cycles) and sixty-two weeks (62 x 49 years = 3,038 years from 58th to 119th Jubilee cycles). It shall be built again, with streets and a trench (David rebuilt Milo, a dry moat, citadel & fortifications of Jerusalem), but in times of affliction.
And after the sixty-two weeks (70th week, the 120th Jubilee cycle) Messiah (“Anointed ones” or all 12 tribes including State of Israel, USA, UK & Commonwealth. Ye’shua Jesus already came and died.) shall be cut off (killed) and have naught. And the people of a coming prince (anti-Christ) shall destroy the city and the set-apart place (saints – 12 tribes, 1 Cor 3:16). And the end of it is with a flood. And wastes are decreed, and fighting until the end.
And he (Satan) shall confirm a covenant (UNEP, which includes LGBTQ+ rights > Paris Accord today) with many (worldwide) for one week (“Feast of Weeks” from 1972 to 2020 = 49 years). And in the middle (2020) of the week (70th) he shall put an end (by killing) to slaughtering and meal offering (prayers – bulls of our lips). And on the wing of abominations he shall lay waste, even until the complete end and that which is decreed is poured out on the one who lays waste” (Dan 9:24-27).
Well…NG, this is the first time that I can say, I turned the channel at time-marker 41:49. Be for sure of this: The not-to-distant future is deadly for those who worship Yehovah, who will resurrect us by Yeshua. As for Psalm 22 and the apostolic/gospel authors, it seems to me that they used a ‘Cliff Notes’ method. So, to include “My God, my God…” is to refer to the entire Psalm as it was exhibited before their eyes in 4D. As for Daniel 9, Yeshua did emphasize that we understand [Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14]. Are we really to think that Acts 15:23-29 is the exact, complete letter written?…or, “after this manner”?
Let’s not miss the forest for trees.
God revealed the time of the first advent to Daniel. “Seventy weeks,” said the angel, “are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.” Daniel 9:24. – {RR 245.5}
The Time of Christ’s First Coming Specified
A day in prophecy stands for a year. See Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6. The 70 weeks, or 490 days, represent 490 years. The prophecy gives a starting point for this period: “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks” (Daniel 9:25)—69 weeks, or 483 years. The command to restore and build Jerusalem by the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus went into effect in the autumn of 457 b.c. See Ezra 6:14; 7:1, 9. From this time, 483 years extend to the autumn of a.d. 27. According to the prophecy, this period was to reach to the Messiah, the Anointed One. In a.d. 27, at His baptism, Jesus received the anointing of the Holy Spirit (see Acts 4:27; John 1:33), and soon afterward He proclaimed the message, “The time is fulfilled.” Mark 1:15. – {RR 245.6}
Then, said the angel, “He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week [seven years].” For seven years after the Savior entered on His ministry, the gospel would be preached especially to the Jews—for three and a half years by Christ Himself, and afterward by the apostles. “In the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.” Daniel 9:27. In the spring of a.d. 31, Christ, the true Sacrifice, was offered on Calvary. Then the veil of the temple was torn (see Mark 15:38), showing that the time had come for the earthly sacrifices to end. – {RR 245.7}
The one “week”—seven years—ended in a.d. 34. By the stoning of Stephen the Jews sealed their rejection of the gospel. The disciples “went everywhere preaching the word” (Acts 8:4), and shortly after, Saul the persecutor became Paul the apostle to the Gentiles. – {RR 246.1}
The prophecies concerning the Savior led the Hebrews to live in a state of constant expectancy. Many believed and “confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.” Hebrews 11:13. The promises repeated through patriarchs and prophets had kept alive the hope of His appearing. – {RR 246.2}
God had not at first revealed the exact time of the first advent; and even when the prophecy of Daniel made this known, not everyone interpreted the message correctly. – {RR 246.3}
Century after century passed. Finally there were no more prophets. As the Jews departed from God, hope almost ceased to brighten the future. Those whose faith should have continued strong were ready to exclaim, “The days are prolonged, and every vision fails.” Ezekiel 12:22. But heaven’s council had determined the hour for the coming of Christ. “When the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman.” Galatians 4:4, 5. – {RR 246.4}
God must give lessons to humanity in the language of humanity. People must hear the Messenger of the covenant in His own temple. The author of truth must separate truth from the chaff of human opinion. God must clearly define the plan of redemption. – {RR 246.5}
When the Savior finally appeared “in the likeness of men” (Philippians 2:7), Satan could only bruise His heel, while by every act of suffering Christ was bruising the head of His adversary. The anguish that sin has brought was poured into the heart of the Sinless One. Yet Christ was breaking the slavery that had held humanity. Every pang of anguish, every insult, was working out the deliverance of the race. – {RR 246.6}
If Satan could have gotten Christ to stain His perfect purity by one act or even one thought, the prince of darkness would have triumphed and gained the whole human family. But while Satan could distress, he could not contaminate. He could cause agony, but not defilement. He made the life of Christ one long scene of conflict and trial, yet with every attack he was losing his hold on humanity. – {RR 246.7}
In Gethsemane and on the cross, our Savior went personally to battle with the prince of darkness. When Christ hung in agony on the cross, then indeed Satan bruised His heel. But that very act was crushing the serpent’s head. Through death Jesus destroyed “him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.” Hebrews 2:14. This act made the plan of salvation secure forever. In death, in rising again, Jesus opened the gates of the grave for all His followers. Our Redeemer has opened the way so that the most sinful, the most needy, the most oppressed and despised, may find access to the Father. – {RR 246.8}
Shalom,
The Messiah vs. David
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Conclusion: David is not mentioned , only the slain lamb. David died a good old age…
He says unto them, How then does David in spirit call him Lord, saying,The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, till I make yours enemies your footstool?
Mt 22:43 Mt 22:44
2Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Will David have his place in the resurrection? This almost goes without saying…
I enjoyed this podcast a lot. It was really interesting to see you dig into ancient texts right on the podcast. And, Joseph really did his homework on commonly used prophecies for Yeshua.
PRAISE YAHSHUA DON’T GET CONFUSED BY ALL THIS BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS i WILL LEAVE YOU WITH ONE SCRIPTURE HE WHO HAS THE SON HAS THE FATHER HE WHO HAS NOT THE SON HAS NOT THE FATHER. IF YOU DON’T HAVE YAHSHUA YOU ARE LOST. YOCH/JOHN 14 AROUND ABOUT THE 8TH VERSE YAHSHUA SAYS IAM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME. NO BLOOD OF YAHSHUA NO SALVATION PLAIN AND SIMPLE AND NO ONE IS EXEMPTED. THE NEXT PART OF PROPHECY WHICH INCLUDES DANIEL AND REVELATIONS IS THE THIRD TEMPLE LETS SEE THEM DISPUTE THAT HAPPENING. SHALOM.
The conclusions that may be reached from the Sabbatical-Jubilee Years are most disturbing given that 70 years have elapsed since the reformation of Israel as a nation. I have some specific reasons to believe that the years 66/68- 67/69 were the last chance for Israel to observe the Sabbatical-Jubilee Years, and 68/70 was the year for destruction of Jerusalem, the second Yom Kippur, being post the tenth of Jubilees. The previous Jubilee Year, the ninth, would have been 17/19, which seems tentatively related to the Messianic/King-of-Righteousness Advent proposition of years by the Tsadokim Dead Sea Scroll Sect through 11Q13. A brief note concerning the two year calendar discrepancy, if I recall correctly, it was Rashi who noted an anomaly in the reckoning of the years, equating to this amount, in the centuries between the First and Second Exiles, and it was the Romans who certainly altered the calendars about 1600 years ago, seemingly providing the correct compensation. From these premises we may consider events of the modern era. The years 1918-1919 are Sabbatical-Jubilee Years. The 1947 Sabbatical year was the eve of the rebirth of Israel. The 1967 year was the period of the Six Day War, subsequently there was the next set of Sabbatical-Jubilee Years, 1968-1969. Then the present Jubilee Year is 2019, and the previous, 2018, a Sabbatical Year, marks the 70th Israel Anniversary. There are other reasons why I believe this model is likely to be correct but, in the most-blessed name of יהוה, may this be sufficient for now.
Yes great observation, I tend to agree. I’m looking at the 70 years just completed by Israel as the 70 years referred to in zachariah, and the question is popped straight afterwards, and exactly in the 24th on the month of sebat. That falls on jan Feb each year, we will see what develops in regard to measuring the temple and boundaries of Jerusalem. But in actuality there’s nothing we can do other than make oneself ready for the approaching day. I just don’t subscribe to 90% of the western world being destroyed, there are scriptures that counter that also. And salvation by keeping Torah well we know salvation is free, to keep the Torah is a blessing for sure. I find dumonds end time apocalyptic view hard to swallow.
Many in the past have tried to calculate the times, most recently Harold Camping which was positively sure of his end times calculations (twice). And Daniel Lee (false prophet)
Even Sir Isaac Newton tried in his “Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel”. He set a date of 2060.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/daniel10.cfm
It appears everyone interprets the same information differently and failed every time. In so doing they have given great occasion to enemies of The Holy One of Israel. Bringing reproach and ridicule to the Holy Oracles of Yehovah.
As for me I will continue to obey His voice, walk in His ways, seek His face, delight in doing his will.
Oh my. I don’t know what to think. I do remember that the nail piercing was not the ‘definitive’ proof that Yehoshua/Yeshua was who he was…it was the Resurrection that showed that Yehovah had accepted His sacrifice as a sufficient atonement for our sin by raising Yeshua from the dead. King David himself prophesied about that in Psalm 16:7-11 which in itself indicates that King David could not have been the promised Messiah.
Ps 16:7-11
7 I will bless the Yehovah who has counseled me;
Indeed, my mind instructs me in the night.
8 I have set the Yehovah continually before me;
Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
9 Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices;
My flesh also will dwell securely.
10 For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.
11 You will make known to me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.
NASU
It seems to me that the numbers game is ruling. Having authority over numbers and you’ve got people’s attention. I never get over what people will believe. All these figures and events are wrapped around each other which people then read into it and believe it is the new gospel. Dummond does not make any sense to me. I don’t feel I have to run the numbers/dates of events to understand what is truth. I have been told what is truth. Yeshua declared what he said and did is the Truth. I don’t have to look all around up and down for truth.
As far as Yahovah being both Father acting as the son, I’ve heard this “teaching” before and I totally disagree. Then who was he praying to in Gethsemane himself? It Clearly states in the epistles that Father and Son are two distinct entities. What binds them together is the SPIRIT only. They are ONE in the SPIRIT ONLY. The Flesh profits nothing. God is Spirit! Yeshua stated this fact over and over. A modern day cliche would be: “They’re both on the same page.” They are co-eternally together by the Spirit. Many people do not understand this fact and they will believe any interpretation. That’s just history,
Paul states in 1Cor 15:22-28 that everyone will be resurrected in their own order.When Yeshua, the Son, completes his mission having been given all the authority of Heaven and Earth, he will at that time return the Kingdom to the Father and he himself will be subject to the Father. To me, it is so simple and stress less. When people try to fit all the pieces together they get crazy in their findings and then their ego takes over convincing themselves they’ve found the answers. Relax more and believe the Truth. No one was meant to know everything. If they were, what is the point of faith? Knowledge was only given by Almighty God on a need-to-know basis. That’s been proven with John/Baptist and ALL other Biblical characters. They never knew everything. Remember what God said to Job. “Where were you Job when I laid the foundation of the earth? I didn’t see you there! But since you’re such a know-it-all, stand up like a man and declare what you think you know.” In order words, it’s way over your head, Job. I believe man has reduced God to his image. Nehemia, Intellect has nothing to do with understanding Almighty God nor His Son. It is a spiritual endeavor.
Agreed.
In Daniel 7 of all places, we see, the Ancient of Days and One like the son of man coming in the clouds in the days of these kings. There we clearly see two.
Michael Heiser has a great lecture on the two powers….
Well said Yvonne. Here is a “numbers game” you may find amazing I surely did in the book of John HE THE SON stated 42 TIMES that THE FATHER sent ME!!! WOW For that to be referenced 42 times in one it must be VERY IMPORTANT!!!
PRAISE YAHSHUA ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FOR ME. WHO MARRIED YISRAEL AT SINAI? WAS IT NOT YAHWEH? WHO IS THE BRIDE? IS IT NOT YISRAEL? IS YAHSHUA THE BRIDE GROOM? THE SCRIPTURE SAYS HE IS. IF YAHWEH IS THE BRIDE GROOM OF YISRAEL THEN HOW IS YAHSHUA NOT YAHWEH IF HE IS THE BRIDEGROOM? IF YAHWEH IS THE FATHER AND YAHSHUA THE SON THEN WHICH IS THE BRIDEGROOM. OR CAN THE SON MARRY THE FATHERS BRIDE? THE LAST QUESTION HAS AN OBVIOUS ANSWER AND THAT IS NO.AND YES WE KNOW THAT THE MARRIAGE COVENANT IS SPIRITUAL BUT i DON’T THINK THAT CHANGES WHO THE BRIDEGROOM MUST BE. YAHSHUA’S DEATH AFFORDED A RE-NEWED COVENANT WITH YISRAEL. AND YES NEHEMIAH THERE ARE TWO HOUEES OF YISRAEL THE SCRIPTURE PLAINLY SPELLS THAT OUT. THE PRODICAL IS A PICTURE OF THAT. HOSHEA SAYS YOUR SISTER YEHUDAH TWO SISTERS/TWO HOUSES. SHALOM.
Joseph Dumond says that Yeshua is Yehovah. He should read what Shaul says;
1Co 15:21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a Man.
1Co 15:22 For as all die in Aḏam, so also all shall be made alive in Messiah.
1Co 15:23 And each in his own order: Messiah the first-fruits, then those who are of Messiah at His coming,
1Co 15:24 then the end, when He delivers up the reign to Elohim the Father, when He has brought to naught all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For He (YESHUA) has to reign until He (YEHOVAH) has put all enemies under His (YESHUA) feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be brought to naught is death.
1Co 15:27 For “He (YEHOVAH)has put all under His (YESHUA) feet.” Psa 8:6 But when He says “all are put under Him (YESHUA),” it is clear that He (YEHOVAH)who put all under Him (YESHUA)is excepted.
1Co 15:28 And when all are made subject to Him (YESHA), then the Son Himself shall also be subject to Him (YEHOVAH) who put all under Him, in order that Elohim be all in all.
Amen
Hi Nehemiah! Did you get my last comment as it appears 4 comments were loaded after I sent my last comment in?
In addition to my earlier post, I just get this 10 Lost tribes mentality. Dumond himself stated he believes that the 10 lost tribes are the western nations. But this is a fallacy.
We know from 2 Chronicles 15:9 that there were many northerners who had come down to the south before Assyria took them captive. If so much attention to detail has been taken why not with the myth of the 10 lost tribes.
Even James and Paul refer to the 12 tribes who were present in Jerusalem from abroad for the feast days……
Yeshua is NOT Yehováh!:
https://sumofthyword.com/2017/02/17/trinity-true-or-false/
Ivan Panin did a very good work on the chronology of the bible with a table beginning on page 78 0f this link:
https://www.ubm1.org/Bible_Chronology.pdf
Here is why the Daniel 9 is prophesying Jesus!
Gabriel’s announcement to Daniel:
Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed(Hebrew: “Messiah”) one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks(7 + 62 = 69 weeks): it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.
The Hebrew word for week is “shabua” which means “a seven” of days or years. History has proven that each week represents seven years. Let’s take a look at two dates that prove that Jesus was the Messiah who came after these 69 weeks or 483 years.
Jeremiah prophesied the end of the 70 years of captivity that came in the first year of Cyrus when he freed the Jews to return and build the temple and city:
2Ch.36:22-23 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of Jehovah by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, Jehovah stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and [put it] also in writing, saying, (23) Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath Jehovah, the God of heaven, given me; and he hath charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whosoever there is among you of all his people, Jehovah his God be with him, and let him go up
Isaiah also prophesied the rebuilding of the temple:
Isaiah 44:28 That saith of Cyrus, [He is] my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure, even saying of Jerusalem, She shall be built; and of the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
From the time King Cyrus commanded the temple rebuilt in 486 BC there were “seven weeks” or 49 years until the temple was built and then there was “threescore and two weeks” for a total of 69 weeks or 483 years until Jesus came in 3 BC and was announced by an angel:
Luke 2:11 for there is born to you this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ(Greek ~ anointed) the Lord.
There were subsequent commands to rebuild the temple and city were made by Darius and Artaxerxes in Ezra chapters 5 thru 7 to fulfill Cyrus’ initial command:
Ezra 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded and prospered, through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the decree of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.
Here is another interesting date that proves Jesus to be the “anointed” who came after another 69-week period. The commandment by Artaxerxes was commonly thought to have been in 457 BC. If we count 483 years from 457 BC we come to 27 AD when the scripture says Jesus was 30 years old which was the age a priest could begin to teach:
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself, when he began to teach, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli,
Jesus was baptized by John in 27AD and “anointed” with the Holy Spirit for ministry before He began to teach as Daniel 9:25 prophesied would end the 69 weeks. Jesus announced He was the “anointed” in Luke:
Luke 4:18-21 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, (19) To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. (20) And he closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down: and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on him. (21) And he began to say unto them, To-day hath this scripture been fulfilled in your ears.
Jesus was quoting Isaiah about being the “anointed”:
Isaiah 61:1-2 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; (2) to proclaim the year of Jehovah’s favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Though He only quoted the first half of Isaiah 61:2 because the “day of vengeance” comes after the seventieth week:
Isaiah 63:4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
I prove that here:
https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/
Ok, I have a list of questions as long as my…..Arm ?
Put simply, i dont disagree with Dumonds reckoning of the shmitas and im sure its accurate, but heres at least one big but !
If these shmitas and feast days are off, according to Dumond, then many of the historical events that occurred on feast days in Israels history, and more recent history over the last 70 years cannot be admitted into court as proof events happening on exact feast days, they will mostly be out of sync and therefore disprove Jewish historical events when lined up with feast days.
Secondly “IF” 90% of potential Jews are killed thus leaving the the nations very skeletal, Who are the mighty nations who destroy King of Tyre and drag him into the pit. If 90% of the western nations are gone, theres no one left that comes from beyond the horizon to destroy the king of tyre…. and they are not the so called righteous……these are the ones, the gentiles, who convert to worship the king of kings.
Thirdly, Isa 2, Mic 4, Dan 7 state the kingdom begins in the times of these kings [Mideast beast nations] as depicted by the stone hitting the statue at the feet, that is the scene where the kingdom begins and its at that time when the Ancient of days appears and AND AND, one like the son of man, not David.
I see the Daniel 9 time line to encompass 3 types of prophecies literal 70 weeks, 70 lots of shmita weeks and 70 counting of the weeks Shabua shabuim, pentecost, so a literal 70 years.
I also see the Zech 1 70 years to be the same 70 counting of the weeks just passed, because the question is asked “How Long” and it is asked, and i believe it is asked in the next year after the end of the 70 years. so in effect its asked on the 71st year, on the 24th of the month of sebat. Jan Feb for us gentiles.. Then the lord sends someone to measure the area…… is it the allusion to the two witnesses, i dont know
However I think theres heaps of great info in Dumonds jubilee cycles, but like i said it is troublesome to see jewish events that were taking place on feast days to no longer occurring on feast days…..
Not sure if i made myself clear enough but thats how i see things.
As to the 2300 evening mornings, this statement suggests that prior to this the temple was clean and in tact, and afterwards also, so during this period is it not clean. Meaning that the temple in operational before during and afterwards, BUT only during this 2300 evening mornings it is defiled. To me this is tied into the Greecian/Ionian sacking against Persia, more commonly known as the wars between Greecia and Persia…..
I see huge problems with Dumonds interpretations but his jubilee times seem to be correct.
And whilst we are on the 2300 evening mornings, I have always looked at this as being a literal 1150 day period, as theres an evening and a morning to each day, so if we are counting individual evening mornings, this would span a period of 1150 literal days…. so if the defiling takes place in the afternoon, that one mean 1 evening already taken from the count
Just quickly reading over Daniel 8 and Daniel is told that the vision is for end times. But it has to span history also. So whilst the reality of the vision began with the confrontation of Greecia/Turkey and Persia it reaches it culmination in the end times, but notice, its only the little horn, the descendant, of the Goat kingdom.
I think us gentiles have a different way of reading texts meant for Jewish minds. We tend to bring everything in the text to our time, but if we did this then none of the scripture would have had its fulfillment and thus why would you believe it in the first place, if it hadnt happened yet.
Its an ongoing unfolding saga that reaches its ultimate fulfillment, parts already fulfilled, thus allowing us to prove that its ending will also be sure.
Shabbat Shalom James, I am thrilled to see I have your mind whirling here. That excites me. And to see you are going back and rereading the scriptures is a blessing to me to know you are doing this.
Nehemia and I covered a lot of ground and we did so very fast and I did not have much of a chance to explain it. LOL
Maybe next time we can focus on one subject and go into great detail.
To try and answer all your questions here will not serve you and I most likely would leave out some gems along the way.
Go get the 2300 Days of Hell and read it. If it does not add up nor make sense or if you feel it was a waste of time, I will refund you the cost. Just tell me. No arguments.
Sound fair?
But let me comment on one of your posts above about Daniel 8.
Dan 8:13 Then I heard a certain holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that one who spoke, Until when shall the vision last, concerning the daily sacrifice and the transgression that astounds, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled?
Dan 8:14 And he said to me, For two thousand, three hundred evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be vindicated.
The word that is translated as Sanctuary in verse 13 can just as easily be translated as the Saints and the host of the saints that are to be trodden under foot. IN fact it is this understanding that fits with the many other scriptures about this time and this is why Daniel was sick for days.
H6944 (Strong)
קֹדֶשׁ
qôdesh
ko’-desh
From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: – consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.
H6942 (Brown-Driver-Briggs)
קדשׁ
qâdash
BDB Definition:
1) to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be set apart, be consecrated
1a2) to be hallowed
1a3) consecrated, tabooed
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to show oneself sacred or majestic
1b2) to be honoured, be treated as sacred
1b3) to be holy
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to set apart as sacred, consecrate, dedicate
1c2) to observe as holy, keep sacred
1c3) to honour as sacred, hallow
1c4) to consecrate
1d) (Pual)
1d1) to be consecrated
1d2) consecrated, dedicated
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to set apart, devote, consecrate
1e2) to regard or treat as sacred or hallow
1e3) to consecrate
1f) (Hithpael)
1f1) to keep oneself apart or separate
1f2) to cause Himself to be hallowed (of God)
1f3) to be observed as holy
1f4) to consecrate oneself
An example is found in Numbers 15:40; קדשׁים sacred ones, saints
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/numbers/15-40.htm
Daniel 8:13 is not talking about the Sanctuary. Those interpreting are . But Daniel is talking about the Saints being trampled underfoot for 2300 Days. And Daniel 9 tell us those days begin in the middle of the 70th Jubilee Cycle. In other words 2020. One year from now.
Please do get the book and see th emany other scriptures I share to show you this point and much much more.
Regarding the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, Dan 8:13 seems to say that they begin at the start of the vision and end with the cleansing of the sanctuary. And the vision begins with the he goat (Alexander) attacking the ram (Persia), which occurred in “May” (actually Decius) 334 BCE. Adding 2300 years to 334BCE gives 1967 CE, the year Israel recaptured Jerusalem. And while the date of the battle of Granicus is usually given as May 334 BC, the ancient sources give the month as Decius. Since the Macedonians were using a lunisolar calendar at that time, Decius in -334 might well have included early June. So the interval between Granicus and June 7, 1967 may have been exactly 2300 years. I wish I could prove or disprove it. Perhaps someone with more expertise in the ancient Macedonian calendar could help me out.
There are a whole bunch of suggestive arguments that one could make pointing to a tribulation in the 2020’s. For example in Joshua 3:4, Joshua commands the people to maintain a space of about 2000 cubits behind the ark of the covenant when crossing over the Jordan into the promised land. At the start of Yeshua’s ministry he was baptized at Bethabara which John 1:28 says was “beyond Jordan”, apparently meaning on the eastern side of the Jordan. And Yeshua is identified with the ark and everything in it. Why the 2000 cubit separation? Could this be hinting that about 2000 years after Yeshua crossed over Jordan on a mission to lead Israel into the spiritual promised land, that the Jewish people will follow him spiritually into the land? Obviously this is not an airtight proof that the tribulation will happen in the 2020’s, but it is interesting that there are a number of similar arguments that seem to say that the tribulation could begin any time now. We will have to wait and see, but I have a feeling that it is getting close.
Possibly the best explanation of the chronology of Daniel 9, which I have come across is Michael Skobac of Jews for Judaism.ca. He tears the history apart, translates the Hebrew, and reconstructs the history. It makes more sense than all the Christian inferences trying to prove that the text is messianic.
Thanks for another interesting podcast…
Josephus, the LXX, and the Samaritan Pentateuch state a different number of years for the lives of those in Genesis 11:12-23, than the Masoretic text uses. Could their longer chronologies change the Biblical dating calendar?
The Masoretic texts that our bibles are based on are highly respected, but what if their ‘master copy’ was one that had been tampered with in Genesis 11, during the second century, say – even before they’d received it in transmission? The agreement of these other early witnesses to the Genesis 11 lifespans, suggests the Masoretic ‘master copy’ may have been meddled with sometime after the first century. Nathan Hoffman, in his Pyramids/Flood Youtube video, suggests a reason why this could have been.
Any thoughts?
yes good question, but if portion has been tampered ?? then whos to say the rest hasnt been, and in the end none of it is accurate ???
Or have i misread your question ?
Hi James,
I realise the rest of the text could be corrupted, but a corruption in one place doesn’t mean that the whole text has been corrupted everywhere. The Samaritan Pentateuch is an example – it’s corrupted in places where the Samaritans wanted it corrupted – to serve their agenda – but not corrupt everywhere.
The fact that Josephus, the LXX, and the Samaritan Pentateuch all agree with each other on the Genesis 11 time spans (and all 3 were written centuries before the earliest Masoretic text available), suggests those verses might have been tampered with. Nathan Hoffman’s Pyramids/Flood videos suggests a reason why Rabbi’s might have interfered with it.
It can be fairly straightforward to work out what the original version would have been though, even if none of its remaining copies are fully correct. For example, if the following three texts are all corruptions from the original, I bet you can still deduce the original:
The dog sat on the mat;
The cat soiled the mat;
The cat sat on the mit.
S.
.
Shabbat Shalom Steve, there is one way to know which text is correct. And that is to do both chronologies and see which one matches with the two Jubilee Years mentioned in the bible. There are only two places teh Jubilee year is mentioned. 2 Kings 19:29 and Lev 25:2 And you must match these two dates one to another and once you have done that (which can only be done by doing the proper chronology) then you will know which version is the correct one.
Great questions though
Thanks, I hadn’t realised that verse was about the Jubilee year.
I suppose I’m questioning whether it’s right to consider this year as Jewish year 5779 from creation, if the Rabbi’s, say, had been behind a distortion of the original text that was transmitted later to the Masoretes. (This perhaps is not a point that significantly effects your purpose in writing.)
Greetings,
Heard the different readings of Psalms 22 where there is controversy over whether it refers to “lions” versus “they pierced”. Just curious, how was it written and translated in the dead see scrolls copy of Psalms?
Thanks
I have been following Joseph Dummond for a few years now and have read his 750+ page book. It is not an easy read, and there were some days I quit reading after only getting through 2-3 pages. I needed time to digest what I just read. It appears all of the information that is presented is correct as I can’t prove him wrong, nor have I seen anyone else do so. Since this interview took place last year, I’m curious what your thoughts are, Nehemia, now that you’ve had time to process everything and look into these matters a little deeper. By the way, I did keep that last shemittah year, as best as I could, according to Joseph’s reckoning in the book. We will all know in about a year if 2020 is foresight or hindsight! Shalom!
Well, that was a better debate than all the Greek stuff that’s floating about.
Nehemia, you have the patience of Job. That’s the only comment I have for this episode.
You and me both April! LOL!
1.- Yeshua is/was the physical representation (Meymráh) of Yehováh?
2.- The dry bones of Ez 37 are the number of Israel’s tribes from all the face of the earth being awaken today to come to be part of the final redemption of Yehováh’s people (goy kadosh) Ex 19.6?
3.- Is it given to us to pretend to know the times? Or shall we focus on what is revealed? Deut 29:28
4.- Who belongs to Israel according to the Scriptures? Today’s countries or…the ones Yehováh has chosen? Israel is not any ADN related concept it is rather a sovereign election (setting apart) of Yehováh, the ones under His covenant Torah observant people according to His work of grace described in Jer 31.31.
I am also a Truth seeker.
I would like to have some one to answer my questions, please.
Summary of Joe’s points:
(Thanks Nehemia for doing this which is of interest I think to many of your listeners (not all). I like Joe and we share a similar church background. I appreciate his Sabbath-year research so much.)
Yet he lost me on so many points like:
* In 2020 “2300 days of hell” begin (that’s 6.3 years ending 2026 at Trumpets)
* Joseph’s 7 years of Famine/Plenty begin Trumpets, 2026 when the Two Witnesses begin their work and no rain and then they die
* Only after that are the 3.5 year Great Tribulation (!)
* The (7 sabbath year cycle) 70th week of Daniel began in 1996 (!!)
* Yeshua does not return (!?!)
* There is a 1000 year delay until the “God/Messiah” comes to earth in 3024
* “The Messiah” is not Yeshua but King David (who I agree gets resurrected and does rule, but in 6030 AM) in 2045 (not 2030 as I think).
* David won’t tell the world the Christians are wrong, Jesus is not Messiah…but Joe is not sure what he’ll say. (Confusing)
* We should keep the Sabbatical year of ancient Israel in Palestine (yes, worldwide)
That said, Joseph has researched dozens of tombstones showing when the true Sabbath year cycle is and I agree with him on that and appreciate his findings in that area. https://escapeallthesethings.com/great-tribulation-sabbath-year
Thanks Tim for your comments.
let address two of them for you.
You said “The Messiah” is not Yeshua but King David (who I agree gets resurrected and does rule, but in 6030 AM) in 2045 (not 2030 as I think).
* David won’t tell the world the Christians are wrong, Jesus is not Messiah…but Joe is not sure what he’ll say. (Confusing)
* We should keep the Sabbatical year of ancient Israel in Palestine (yes, worldwide)
The Messiah of Daniel 9, the Prince is King David and can be proven so by counting the 7 Jubilee cycles from the going forth of the command. That is 7 Jubilee cycles from when Yehovah told Moses to go and get His people, 7 Jubilee cycles later is when King David, Messiah the Prince is born and reigns and died all in that 7th Jubilee cycle.
It then continues and but the anointed which is the Mashiach which is then translated as the Messiah is actually talking about the Anointed Saints of Israel who will be cut off after the 62nd Jubilee. That is the 69th in total which is 1996 CE.
It is my belief that King David will be raised up with the rest of the Saints at the end of the Great Tribulation in the year 2033 CE. This is take place at Shavuot.
As to what David will and will not say at that time to the Christians. I have no knowledge of what he is going to say. I would have to be a prophet to respond to that question.
But I do know this. Those who claim to be Christian and do not keep the Torah, will not be found alive by the time David is brought back to life. David will not be addressing Christians, but He will be ruling over those who are keeping the Torah and following Yehovah. He will be showing them how to set up the Temple and preparing them for the 7th Millennium and how to govern during that time.
Yes the Sabbath is for all the world, The Holy Days are for all the world. And the Sabbatical years and Jubilee years are for all the world to keep.
Do not agree that the Daniel 9 25-27 #1 refers to dead King David #2 is about the exodus, “to restore and build Jerusalem” seems to refer to the city and not the temple.
It appears that YAHOVAH intentionally created confusion about this so that He is still Supreme and He alone knows the correct times cause in our humanness we will create catastrophic danger!
I would respectfully disagree, unless you were thinking of a different word other than “confusion.” 1 Corinthians 14:33
1 Corinthians 14:33 KJVS
[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Amos 3:7 KJVS
[7] Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Yehovah is not the author of confusion.
Out standing podcast. I been learning from sightedmoon.com for years now. Joseph Dumond has changed my understanding on many biblical truths. Wasn’t always easy to accept my errors but as of 2019 I have never been able to prove his research incorrect about the Sabbatical and Jubilee Cycles or his timeline for the end times. Thank you Mr. Gordon for sharing this with us, Shalom.
At the thirty one minute mark the Author states that Yeshua nor his talmidim “never ” quote Daniel “Nine” as to Yeshua’s authenticity, yes ? However, we have further evidence in the New Testament that this claim is rather interesting as if one reads the last sentence in Yochanan’s Gospel, one will learn that the Bible as we know it, is an abbreviation of a very complex narrative. To suggest one “never” spoke a thing because there is no record of it being said, on face value, is not very convincing. – ” But there are also many other things that Yeshua did ( it is not plausible to “do” things, especially the miraculous, among small groups or crowds without speaking many things ), and if they were all to be recorded, I don’t think that the whole world could contain the books that would have to be written ! ” Yochanan 21:25 .
From what you have said you are admitting you have no real scriptural proof that any of the Apostles or Yehshua used the Daniel 9 prophecy to prove He was the Messiah.
Thanks for your reply. My point is simply that if a quote is missing from the Record, does it actually mean it wasn’t made ? It cannot be proven one way or the other so how does one arrive at a conclusion that it was never cited ? Yeshua clearly stated that he didn’t come to “testify ” of himself. Refer to John 5:31. Thanks again !
The scriptures clearly teach a 7 year tribulation that very well may commence this fall:
https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/
But we must have a better understanding of who “All Israel” is so we know who the Jews really are in our new covenant:
https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/
You totally lost me at “Yeshua is Yehovah” and “we killed Yehovah”
100%…I forgot that one.
Joseph suggest that we view his chart “The Sabbatical and Jubilee Year Calendar The Blood and Dark Moons From Adam” : https://sightedmoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Sabbatical-Jubiees-Chart-Updated-2018.pdf
The first thing that is glaring is his antediluvian Passover sacrifices.
From his chart footnotes:
“…1656 A.C. Methuselah dies around Passover age 969 Noah must cleanse for 7 days and cannot take the first Passover. In the Second Month on the 17th day the earth was Flooded. The second Passover was on the 15th, and possibly the wave offering on the 16th day of the second month…”
“…A Lunar Eclipse was seen on March 21st, 2181 B.C. This would have been when the 1st Passover took place. Noah took part in the 2nd Passover due to the death of Methuselah. There were other Lunar Eclipses on April 1st and September 24th, 2182 B.C.; April 12th and October 5th, 2183 B.C.; April 22nd and October 16th, 2184 B.C. It is recorded as a Lunar Tetrad April and September 2182 B.C., as well as April and October 2183 B.C. These are the four Holy Days leading up to the Flood at Passover in 2181 B.C., but keep in mind that even during the 1st Passover that year, there was a total Lunar Eclipse giving us the four Blood Moons at that time…”
Deuteronomy 4:2 KJVS
[2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
FWIW, I asked Mr. Dumond about this a few months ago on his site/blog, and this was the reasoning he gave in his response:
———————–
Neville Newman
says:
March 3, 19 at 2:28 pm
You just threw me for a loop. *Noah* keeping Passover??
Reply –
Joseph F. Dumond
says:
March 4, 19 at 4:45 pm
In order to be righteous as Noah was, means that He kept the Torah. Psalm 119:172 Let my tongue sing of thy word; For all thy commandments are righteousness. The 4th commandment is about the Sabbath and includes the Holy Days and Sabbatical and Jubilee Years. The Flood came on the 17th day of the 2nd month. If you have touched a dead person, you cannot keep Passover and if that is the case, then you can keep it in the 2nd month. Methuselah died in the year of the flood and was a righteous man. He did not die because of the flood but from old age. If he died just before Passover in the first month then Noah would not be able to keep the 1st Passover and it would be postponed to the 2nd month. The flood came on the 17th day of the 2nd month. 2 days after the Passover on the 15th. It may not have been called Passover then but it was the 1st day of Unleavened Bread.
Reply –
Neville Newman
says:
March 4, 19 at 5:26 pm
Thank you for the explanation. I can’t agree with the many quantum leaps of logic, but now I understand how you got to your conclusion.
—————————
Thank you Neville. This is correct and I stand by that.
John 21:25 KJVS
[25] And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Wish I would have reviewed the comments before I made my ” two cents” worth as I repeated your argument. I totally agree as in the context of Yeshua’s ministry and his miraculous deeds, this would have overwhelmed the senses of the most astute Scribe whereby he would be inclined to omit many things spoken as he laboriously attempted to recall the deed as accurately as possible.Thanks
Second witness. I am glad that I am not the only person that made the connection to this verse.
Re: absence
…and just think of how much written material was burnt and lost during the early centuries.
ditto! On the Road to Emmaus Yeshua had to open the eyes of two men by revealing himself in scripture – and which scriptures exactly? We are not told.