Torah Pearls #11 – Vayigash (Genesis 44:18-47:27)

You are listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com.

Jono: G’day to everybody listening wherever you may be around the world, thank you for your company. It’s time for Pearls from the Torah Portion with Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson. Gentlemen, welcome back.

Keith: Listen, Jono, we’re going to have to change this whole thing around based on last week’s Torah portion. It’s going to have to be “Keith Johnson and Nehemia Gordon”. He’s got to be second. He can’t be first on this, okay?

Nehemia: I would love to be second. There’s an old Hebrew saying, “Acharon acharon haviv,” “last is best”.

Jono: Don’t we read somewhere, Keith, that, “To the Jew first,” didn’t I read that somewhere?

Keith: Okay. All right. Here we go.

Jono: Oh, dear. All right. What are we doing? It’s Pearls from the Torah Portion with Keith Johnson and Nehemia Gordon. How’s that?

Keith: I liked it the other way better. Go back to “Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson”.

Jono: This week we are in Vayigash, Bereshit 44:18 to 47:27, and it begins like this: Joseph is threatening to keep Benjamin, and the last thing that Judah said to Jacob was, “Hey, blame it on me forever if I don’t bring him back before you.” And Jacob said, “If you don’t bring him back, I’m going to die, it’ll kill me.”

So this is the situation we find Judah in. “Judah came near to Joseph and he said: ‘O my lord, please let your servant speak a word in my lord’s hearing, and do not let your anger burn against your servant; for you are even like Pharaoh. My lord asked his servants, saying, Have you a father or a brother?’” And so he recounts everything to him. In the end, he says, “If I don’t bring him back, there’s going to be some serious trouble and our father will die.” At these words, this is where he cracks, right? This is where Joseph finally can’t contain himself anymore.

Keith: Yeah. And he says… I think it’s interesting when he does this, he says… but first of all, Judah retells the whole story. I mean we’re reading, and I’m like, “Okay, and we already know this, Judah.” But no, he’s telling the whole story to Joseph and he’s telling him about the interactions that he’s actually had with Joseph’s father. So I mean, at this point Joseph, as much as he named his son that he would not be reminded of his household, he’s being reminded of his household, at this point, emotionally and whatever it is that’s happening. But I think it’s interesting that he says in chapter 45, “Joseph could no longer control himself before all of his attendants, and he cried out, ‘Have everyone leave my presence!’” He had all the Egyptians leave, and then he does this amazing thing, and I can’t get this picture out of my mind – the look on the face of these brothers.

I mean, Nehemia introduced me to this show called South Park, and he came over to the United States, and he introduced South Park to my family. So we’re sitting there watching South Park, well, there’s a scene in South Park where – I won’t go into great detail – but there’s this look that they look at that is just utter shock, they’re just looking and they literally can’t say anything. I can’t get the image out of my mind when he finally says, “I am Joseph!” And then he says, “I am Joseph!” The first thing he says is, “Is my father still living?” And his brothers were not able to answer him because they were terrified of his presence. I can just imagine them looking at him like… I mean, what’s going through their mind? How many years did we say it was later, how many years later?

Jono: 13.

Nehemia: He was 13 from when the whole thing started, then you had another seven of plenty, and then we’re two years into the famine, so that’s nine. So he’s like 39 years old.

Keith: Oh, my goodness. Maybe you guys can see it different, but I can’t imagine the look on their face. I can’t imagine what that would be like.

Jono: That’s 13 years and 9. We’re looking at 22 years. Did I do that right? 22 years since they put him…

Nehemia: He hasn’t seen his father in 22 years.

Jono: … 22 years since they put him in the pit. Here he is looking like an Egyptian, they haven’t even, as far as we know, none of them said to the other one, “You know what? He kind of looks a little bit… remember? No, but he looks a little bit…”

Keith: No, he’s dressed up now. His hair has been cut. He’s dressed up. He’s got his makeup; his eyes are done…

Jono: There’s absolutely nothing, Keith, nothing that would prepare them for what he has just said to them. And you’re right, they would have been standing there like absolute stunned mullets, their eyes wide open, their jaw probably just dropped and not knowing what to say.

Nehemia: Like stunned mullets? That must be an Australian expression. I don’t know what that means.

Jono: That must be an Australian expression, okay. All right. They’re speechless, let’s just say.

Nehemia: Okay.

Jono: Okay. And he couldn’t restrain himself, and so here he is. He tells them, “I am Joseph; does my father still live?” That’s funny because Judah just told him that if he doesn’t bring Benjamin back his father’s going to die, but he doesn’t trust them. “Now, seriously, I am Joseph, now tell me truthfully does my father still live?”

Keith: Well, I just want to say that he’s doing this, he’s revealing himself, and he’s asking these other questions, “Is my father still alive?” And they’re still saying, “Wait a minute.” And he says, “Come close to me.” So when they come close, you know, they have done something, he says, “I am your brother Joseph,” and then he reminds them of the obvious, “You know – the one you sold into Egypt!” As much as he’s doing this emotional thing, he’s also reminding them. And then it’s after he reminds them, he says, “Don’t be distressed and do not be angry with yourselves for selling me here, because it was to save lives,” and here comes the first message of salvation, “to save lives that God sent me ahead of you.” I think that’s a pretty powerful statement.

Jono: Amen. So just when they’re absolutely – I mean they must have, at that point, when he said, “You know, the one that you threw into the pit and so and so forth?” They would have been in fear of their lives, no doubt, and absolutely stunned. But that’s right, Keith, the very next thing that he says, “Do not be grieved or angry with yourselves because you sold me here; for God sent me before you to preserve life” is what I have in the New King James here.

Nehemia: This is a really interesting passage, because… I mean the whole story, going back to where he’s 17 years old and he has this dream and they’re going to kill him but then they sell him into slavery – it’s like a series of little things that almost seem like coincidences. Then what we’re seeing here, he’s wrapping it all up and saying, “You know what? This wasn’t you and this wasn’t coincidence. This was the hand of God from the very beginning Who gave me the dream; Who sent me looking for you; Who sent the caravan of slave traders. You sold me here, you did that, that was wrong, but I would’ve ended up here anyway because God wanted me to be here, so I could save us all – not just you – but this entire country and save thousands, maybe millions of lives. This was the hand of God, even though you think this was you and you did bad things. But ultimately this was God who wanted me to be here, and this is not a coincidence.” It’s what I call a “God-incidence”.

Keith: It’s a God-incidence. Jono, you’re just going to have to stop here for a minute. I know we’ve been so diligent, and we’ve been going through this Torah portion. But I can’t help it, the Spirit of God makes me want to stop again and talk about the God-incidences. The way that He really does orchestrate things. You know, it says, how many years from the time the dream came and till this is happening, and this just hit me like a ton of bricks. So would you give me just a little grace, Nehemia, and Jono?

I’m in my house and I’m standing before this Torah scroll that Nehemia interpreted for me when I found this Torah scroll, and the words on the outside of the Torah scroll, “Ki miTzion tetzeh Torah, udevar Yehovah miYerushalayim,” “From Zion shall go forth the Torah and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.” I’m on the phone with Jono in Australia, Nehemia in Israel, I’m in the United States, and what are we talking about? We’re talking about the Torah. You’ve told us that you’ve got many, many people that are listening to the Torah Pearls. Can I just say for a minute? I mean it’s just exciting to me. This all came from a dream, guys!

Jono: From a dream that God gave to you, that’s right.

Nehemia: Wait. So what are you saying, Keith? Are you saying that it wasn’t Jono who brought you here, and it wasn’t Zachi, and it wasn’t me? That all of this is the hand of God?

Keith: I’m telling you that I’m sitting here in complete and utter humility and excitement to know that God still, in these days, shares information and inspiration and revelation in dreams. That He still gives those dreams, and He gave me this dream. If you haven’t heard the story, please go to aprayertoourfather.com, get the book A Prayer to Our Father. It gives both the message of the journey that Nehemia and I have been on, and the reason I want people to do that – not so much so they can buy a book but to enter in what God is still doing.

Jono: Amen.

Keith: He’s still getting His message out; the Torah’s going forth. Here we’re doing a show – excuse my excitement guys – here we’re doing a show that I don’t know how many we’ve done, but literally, thousands of people around the world are listening to the Torah going forth off of a Methodist having a dream, guys. Come on!

Jono: And how great is that? Because it is – it’s all around the world. I look at the website statistics daily, and all around the world thousands of people are tuning in to these Torah portions. I was just saying earlier, we get so many comments, and thank you so much to the listeners who are giving us such positive comments on Facebook and on the website, you can leave comments there. I just want to say thank you to the listeners because it is a blessing for us to know that you too are being blessed by the word of our Father. It’s an absolute privilege to be part of something that is so big, something that God has done.

Keith: Jono, just one more thing. Excuse me, I promise I’m going to get back in the box again here, but one of the things that’s happening with us right now with this show, which is just awesome – I mean we prepare for this, we love doing this, and we would do this in our sleep because it’s the Torah; the Torah is going forward.

Jono: Amen.

Keith: But one of the things that are also happening is there’s an international feel for what’s happening, and there are some exciting things in this upcoming year that we’re going to be doing that are in the spirit of the international – the Torah going forward, and I want people to track with us on it. But sometimes when I sit and think what’s happening, I get overwhelmed that this is God’s way of bringing my friend Nehemia, who’s over in Israel, on radio with myself and you. The three of us together, which represents such diversity, and yet what are we commonly talking about? We’re talking about the Torah. It’s going to go forth, and it is going forth. So there are so many things happening. We’ll talk about it later as we go through these Torah portions.

But I just had to stop for a minute and acknowledge the fact that it is our Heavenly Father Who’s the great maestro in heaven Who’s orchestrating this beautiful symphony that’s got us talking about the Torah and having it go through technology. And I want to say Jono, to you, thank you for having the hutzpah, the guts to invite such a radical guy like Nehemia Gordon. I can’t believe it. You had the guts to do it, and you’ve allowed this crazy Methodist to be on here with you. The Torah’s going forth, so thank you for doing that Jono, for the people that are listening.

Nehemia: Amen.

Keith: We appreciate you, Jono; we appreciate Truth2U.

Jono: Believe me, it’s entirely my privilege to be part of this. I don’t really spend that much time thinking about it because it’s way too big for me to fathom. I’m just riding the wave and enjoying it while we’re doing it.

Keith: Amen.

Jono: Because it’s something that God is doing. And this is what Joseph knew, he knew this is what He said was going to happen – “I’ll just wait until it happens”. And it will happen, why? Because He said it would happen. I just have to ride the wave and do what he wants me to do. I don’t have to worry about it. And this is what he says to his brothers, he says, “God has sent me before you to preserve life.” Now, that’s verse 5. In verse 7, it’s interesting he adds that and says, “God has sent me before you to preserve a posterity,” posterity?

Nehemia: Well, it means descendants, but here she’erit is a remnant. That means not everybody’s going to be saved, just the remnant is going to be saved.

Keith: Now, this is why I had to stop for a second, because of this idea of the remnant. You guys know I’m a little bit nuts, I go around different places with my shofar and I blow the shofar saying, “I’m looking for the remnant!” Yes, who’s that group of people that God is going to use in these days, that’s going to be raised up, that’s going to grab a hold of the Torah, that’s going to understand it, that’s going to preach it and proclaim it? So when I hear this word “remnant,” that he says, “He preserved for you a remnant,” I still believe that there’s a remnant of people that are across the seas and that are in different denominations in places that God is going to bring out in these days that are going to be the witness of His power.

Nehemia: Wait. You’re just saying something… I’ve got to stop you there. Are you saying that you don’t have to be a Methodist in order to be the remnant?

Keith: No, are you kidding me? I mean here there’s this remnant that God – let me tell you what God did in this situation. He used Egyptian blood, mixed it up with the Hebrews. I mean, are you kidding? He’s got these people coming in the midst of a difficult time, of famine, in the midst of a famine; He’s kept this remnant. And that’s why when people get mad and they say, “What could a Methodist have to say? What would a Karaite have to say? And what would Jono, we don’t know what Jono is.”

Nehemia: A Jono-ite.

Keith: I believe that God has a remnant of people that are everywhere. He’s bringing this remnant out, they’re understanding God’s time, His Torah, His name. They’re proclaiming and understanding, they’re waking up to the truth. You know what, they’re coming from places like Methodism, and they’re coming from places like Karaite Judaism, and they’re coming from places like Jonoism. And so that’s what’s exciting to me. I just had to stop about that, because my little version here says, “remnant,” and I wanted to make sure that it said remnant in Hebrew.

Jono: There it is. It’s definitely remnant, and welcome to Jonoism Radio, and here it is in verse 7, “And God sent me before you to preserve a remnant for you in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.” May it happen again soon. “So now, it was not you who sent me here, but God,” Now, here we go, Nehemia, “and He has made me a father to Pharaoh,” That’s what I’ve got. What do you have?

Nehemia: Yes, it says, “He has made me a father to Pharaoh.”

Jono: What does that mean?

Nehemia: “Father” isn’t always meant literally, it often has a symbolic meaning of somebody who is an authority over someone else. Here he may not be a political authority because obviously, Pharaoh is the guy in charge. But in this case, I think he gives Pharaoh guidance because Pharaoh doesn’t really know how to rule his kingdom very well. So he guides Pharaoh the way a father would guide a son, giving him the advice and instruction of what to do.

Jono: There it is.

Nehemia: I think that’s the context.

Jono: Fair enough. “Hurry and go up to my father, and say to him, ‘Thus says your son Joseph: God has made me lord over all Egypt; come down to me, do not tarry. You shall dwell in the land of Goshen.’” Now, Nehemia can you tell us, or Keith, where is the land of Goshen? Where is it situated?

Nehemia: Goshen is usually understood to be the eastern Nile Delta; it’s just an area of Egypt, a very lush area of Egypt. The significance of this is that if they would intermix with the rest of the Egyptians, the Egyptians would kill them. The reason they would kill them is that the Hebrews were shepherds, like we talked about last time. Anybody who ate lamb, it was an abomination to them… they ate their God, because the Egyptians worship a lamb, and so that is an abomination to the Egyptians. So they needed to be in a segregated, separate area of Egypt.

Jono: I’ve got to say, he’s not a very powerful god, the sheep god, if you can eat him.

Nehemia: But he tastes great.

Jono: He tastes great.

Nehemia: Especially when you roast him up on Passover.

Jono: And really you think the wrath of the sheep god would have… but I mean, it’s not that. Anyway.

Nehemia: Keith got out of the box, so I wonder if it’s okay for me to get out of the box.

Jono: Get out of the box, Nehemia. Go for it.

Nehemia: I’m going to say something completely out of the box, which is jumping ahead to verse 27. We have the scene in verse 27, and also starting a few verses earlier, where Jacob is told that Joseph is still alive and, “You’ve got to come down to Egypt,” and he doesn’t believe it. He does not believe his son is still alive. He thinks this is a trick to try to get him down to Egypt. It says then in verse 27, “And he saw the carts”, or the wagons, “which Joseph had set to carry him and the spirit of Jacob, their father, came to life.”

Jono: Can I just go back a little bit, because just before that the reason why I came to life is in verse 26, it says, “And they told him, saying, ‘Joseph is still alive, and he’s the governor of all the land of Egypt.’” And it says, “And Jacob’s heart stood still.” Now, are we to understand that he had a heart attack? I mean it says, “Jacob’s heart stood still,” and the next thing we read is that his spirit was revived.

Nehemia: First of all, I don’t think we should take it literally that his heart stood still.

Jono: Okay.

Nehemia: It meant that he was very distraught; he was very disturbed. He thinks, “This is a lie, I don’t believe you. You’re just trying to trick me. I can’t believe my son’s alive.” But then he sees the wagons and he believes. Why does he believe when he sees the wagons?

Now, I was taught this when I was growing up that the reason he believed when he saw the wagons was that – remember I was raised as an Orthodox Jew and now I’m Karaite Jew; I believe in the Tanakh only, but I was raised as an Orthodox Jew and taught that the reason he believed is that the Hebrew word for “wagon” is agalah. This was a code that only Jacob would know that the last thing Jacob and Joseph had studied together before Joseph left, looking for the brothers and getting sold into slavery, was the section of the Talmud that talks about the egglah, which is the Hebrew word for a heifer, meaning a young female cow, or bovine. So he saw the wagons and he says, “Oh, this must be Joseph because he’s reminding me here of us studying together the passage on the egglah, on the heifer, by sending you the agalah, the similar sounding word, the wagon. I was taught this as a fact, and it kind of imbued this message, like, nobody even had to come out and say it. It was a given that the ancient Israelites, and even Jacob himself, sat around with Joseph studying this rabbinical Oral Law, this Talmud.

Later on, I started to think a little bit more critically and thinking, wait a minute, the Talmud – and you could even look specifically at the passage of the egglah, of the heifer, and you’ll see it’s this rabbi arguing with some other rabbi, and these are rabbis who lived thousands of years after Jacob. So how is it that he’s studying this with Joseph? The answer is, that’s complete bunk and utter nonsense, and if you read the passage in its context, it’s not even what it says, because it wasn’t even Joseph’s idea to send the wagon – it was Pharaoh’s idea to send the wagon. Why did Pharaoh send the wagon? Not to encode a secret message for Jacob. Pharaoh sent the wagon because he said, “You’ve got women, children, and old people. They’re not coming on the donkeys. They need wagons to carry them. If you’re going to come, just the adult men, they can come on donkeys, but if we’re going to bring old people, we need some wagons there.” When Jacob saw that he realized, “Okay, this is serious, because I know my sons didn’t buy wagons down in Egypt. This must be a serious situation where Joseph has sent the wagons,” or Pharaoh, it turns out, sent the wagons. So anyway, that was me being a little bit out of the box.

Keith: You’re not going with the rabbinic interpretation here, Nehemia?

Nehemia: Not only am I not going with the rabbinical interpretation, it kind of insults my intelligence. I think anybody who is presented with this type of interpretation, whether it’s this exact one or in other passages, needs to ask themselves, “What does it actually say in the context? Does it really say that?” Because what they’re doing is very clever – they’re picking up on this thing that you have in ancient Hebrew, which is a play on words: egglah, agalah, they sound similar. They’re from a similar root, the same root. So that actually could make sense, that it could be true. But if you read the whole passage in its context, it doesn’t even fit because first of all, there was no Talmud in the time of Jacob, obviously, because it’s a bunch of arguments of later rabbis. And secondly, it wasn’t even Joseph who sent the wagons, it was Pharaoh. So the whole thing doesn’t even make sense.

I don’t even care about this one example, I’m not trying to prove or disprove this one example. I think this is a harmless example because it’s so ridiculous. But then people will bring this type of argument and say, “Well, this is the deep secret meaning of Scripture. The Jews have this information, they have this secret information, and you’ve got to receive it and accept it. If you knew more and if you studied more and if you knew Hebrew, you would know that these secret meanings are true.” Well, I know Hebrew and I could tell you these secret meanings are utter nonsense. If it doesn’t fit in the context, as Keith likes to say, “if it doesn’t fit, you must acquit.”

Jono: Amen.

Keith: Let me say this, Jono, this is a great point to say this, I’m going to leave Jonoism. I was about to sign up for Nehemiaism when he came with this great revelation. I thought for sure that he was – and this happens, I’m not making fun of it. Someone will come with some great deep revelation and I’ll say, “Now, you can be the wise man, and I’ll come under you.” But there’s this wonderful prayer we do every single time in the show where we ask that people’s eyes would be open. And Nehemia, you’re going to do this prayer because you do it so beautifully, but what you just said is such a powerful thing that we would ask God for help. There are these interpretations that are out there, but what do we really want to see? We want to see what God wants us to see. So can you bring that verse and pray that prayer for the people as we continue to study?

Nehemia: “Yehovah, Elohai ve’Elohei avotai, Elohei Avraham, Yitzhak ve’Yaakov, gal eneihem ve’yabituh niphlaot mi-Torahteha.” Amen. “Yehovah, my God, and God of my fathers, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, please open their eyes that they may see the wonderful hidden things of Your Torah.” Amen.

Jono: Amen.

Keith: Amen. I think that’s what we’re about – is what you just brought was a great example, Nehemia. Again, you’re just bringing that as an innocent example of… not innocent but I mean…

Nehemia: It’s innocent in that, who really cares one way or the other? So it’s not a theology invested in here, I guess, unless you believe that the Talmud goes back to the time of Jacob. But really, even then, no one’s really invested greatly in this ridiculous interpretation, which is why it’s such a good example to look at. Because then when we get the ones where people are deeply invested and their entire denomination is based on a ridiculous interpretation – even more ridiculous than this – we can get some perspective and say, “Wait a minute, is that really what it says in the context?”

Jono: Amen.

Keith: I want to say, and I wonder this, you guys, I don’t know if this is true or not, but I think one of the things that’s so awesome about the approach that we’re trying to take is we really are trying to ask the question, “What does the text say?”

Jono: Yes.

Keith: What does the text itself say? In order to know that we’ve got these different translations here, even on the phone we’re going to go with the Jonoism Bible, the New King James, we’re going to go with the Methodist Bible, the Nearly Inspired Version, and then we’re going to go with the actual Hebrew Scriptures themselves. Hopefully, through that, we’re trying to find out what does it actually say. The prayer is so important because ultimately we’re going to need our eyes to be open to see what it actually says, beyond interpretation of man or agenda or even different groups that would say “Follow me, I have the hidden secret. You know, it’s the dots over the word, and these dots mean…” When in fact, it really isn’t that at all. So hopefully people will keep tracking with us on that. That’s the goal. We don’t have a denomination you’re going to sign up with at the end of the Torah portion that if you sign up you can become a part of our denomination.

Jono: Jonoism.

Nehemia: Wait. Maybe we should start that?

Jono: I’m still liking Jonoism. When you’re talking, in the back of my mind I’m thinking Jonoism. It’s catchy to me. All right. That is just a reminder to the listeners that… Psalm 119 verse 18, Nehemia, thank you for praying that.

And so here we are, and before we go much further, we’re in chapter 46, God speaks to Israel and he says, “Jacob, Jacob!” And he says, “Here I am.” And God says to him, “I am God, the God of your father; do not fear to go down to Egypt, for I will make of you a great nation there. I will go down with you to Egypt, and I will also surely bring you up again; and Joseph will put his hands on your eyes.” What’s that about, “Joseph will put his hand on your eyes”?

Keith: Can I ask a question just before you answer that question? Just a very quick question I want to ask here, because when I hear this and it says in verse 2 that Jacob spoke to Israel, so he’s saying, “And God spoke to Israel in a vision at night and said,” and why do I have to slow down? Because he’s speaking to Israel, but he’s calling him Jacob. So, what’s his name?

Nehemia: Both.

Jono: Is there significance to the use of one over the other? I mean is there a connotation there?

Nehemia: I don’t think so. I think there’s places where… I mean here’s an example of where they’re used interchangeably.

Jono: Okay.

Nehemia: They’re obviously referring to the same person. That’s actually very interesting, because when Abram and Sarai were renamed Avraham and Sarah, they were never called by their old names again.

Jono: True.

Nehemia: Here, Israel is being called by his old name.

Keith: By God himself! And so I want to stop here. I want to stop and have Nehemia go off the verse. Come on! Come up with something.

Nehemia: Well, um…

Jono: Figure it out because he says to him on two occasions he says to him, “Your name is no longer Jacob, your name is now Israel.”

Keith: That’s right, Jono.

Nehemia: There’s a Jewish secret here, but I’m going to only reveal it to you two. I don’t want this to be in the recording.

Jono: Everybody close your eyes.

Nehemia: No, I just better not say it. Okay, go ahead.

Jono: Come on.

Nehemia: You can sign up for $49.95 and get the Jewish secret, though.

Jono: Only available in Jonoism, mind you. Come on, give it to us. What is the secret?

Keith: The reason that I wanted to stop for a second, let’s just leave it the way that it is. The way that it is, and it says, “God spoke to Israel in a vision at night, but said to him, ‘Jacob! Jacob!’” And then Jacob didn’t say, “Hey, my name has been changed.” He says this wonderful thing that’s throughout scripture, he says, “Here I am.” Again, every time we get to, “Here I ams,” I’m always going to slow down because I always think that those three English words, I think it’s one Hebrew word, heneni, am I right, Nehemia?

Nehemia: Heneni, “Behold, I am.”

Keith: Yes, “Behold, I am.” The idea, again, that whatever it is that he’s being called, whether it’s Jacob, the name that represented something before he was named Israel, the one who would struggle with man and with God and be able to prevail, that the response is still the same. The response is heneni, “Here I am.” And again, he reminds him who it is that’s calling and he takes him back in history and tells him about the significance of what’s going on and why not to go to Egypt. But anyway, I just think it’s interesting that he did that. I don’t think we have a clear answer, unless Nehemia is willing to share the secret for why God…

Jono: I’ll tell you what, I want an answer, Keith. While you’re talking, I’m reading the study notes of my Nelson’s New King James Study Bible, and I’m going to tell you what it says. It says, “God appeared to Israel for the seventh time. The fact that the names Israel and Jacob are used interchangeably indicates that the earlier negative connotations of the name Jacob have faded. Instead of meaning that “Jacob supplants,” the name Jacob now means that “God supplants.” Nehemia, what do you make of that?

Nehemia: Um… That’s my answer.

Jono: Okay.

Keith: Jono, are you kidding me? This is a Study Bible. What are you talking about, Nehemia? This is a Study Bible, someone’s got the secret. Okay, let’s move on.

Jono: All right. We’ll peel his fingernails off later and make him talk.

Nehemia: For those who thought I was serious about being the Jew with the secret, I’m not.

Jono: Okay.

Nehemia: For $49.95 I could be.

Jono: Can you tell me this – in Jonoism, by the way. Can you tell me this, “Joseph will put his hands on your eyes,” what does it mean? Do you know what it means?

Nehemia: I think it means that he was having trouble seeing and although he wasn’t going to visually see Joseph, he would feel him; he would perceive him.

Keith: I don’t see it that way.

Nehemia: What’s that?

Jono: Keith?

Nehemia: You don’t see it that way in your eyes?

Keith: No, I don’t see it that way. I see it as him saying, “And Joseph’s own hand will close your eyes.” Meaning, you’re not dead yet, Joseph himself will be there when you die. He’s going to be the one that’s going to put his hand to close your eyes. You know how sometimes people die and their eyes are open and then someone shuts their eyes? This is Joseph who’s going to do that. This is a prophetic statement saying, “You’re not going to die until Joseph himself will be in your presence when you die.”

Jono: Okay, well that’s what he says in verse 28, “Then Israel said, ‘It is enough. Joseph my son is still alive. I will go and see him before I die.’” And not only that, but when he sees him, he says, this is in verse 30, “Now let me die, since I have seen your face because you are still alive.”

Keith: Exactly.

Jono: So perhaps. Perhaps. Now, between there, there’s a whole lot of names. Nehemia, do you want to pull any of those names out? Do you want to highlight anything there? Because man, there are a lot of names there.

Nehemia: Not particularly.

Jono: There we go.

Keith: Hold on, Nehemia. Wait for just a second, Jono. The thing that is powerful about this is, you know, sometimes how we say, “This many went down into Egypt and this many came out.” What I think is interesting is that there are names, and this is not some vanilla group of people. These are actual individual people who have names. You could go through this – and I’ve done it before – where you could go through here and you would see these names and the names that have been named by and why those are significant. At least that’s the one thing that’s been powerful without any great spiritual interpretation, just taking the time to actually read through. Usually, Jono reads the verses, now we get to the names, and he doesn’t want to read names.

Jono: There’s a whole lot of stuff here, Keith, that I just can’t pronounce, and I just don’t want to embarrass myself.

Nehemia: I can read them in Hebrew for you if you want.

Jono: You could?

Nehemia: Let me read it in Hebrew real quick.

Keith: No, that’s okay. All I’m saying is…

Nehemia: What? All of a sudden you don’t want the names?

Keith: No, all I’m saying is…

Nehemia: “V’elu shmot bnei Israel habaim Mitzrayima Yaakov ubanav bechor Yaakov Reuven v’bnei Reuven, Hanoch u’Pallu, v’Hezron, v’Carmi. U’bnei Shimon: Yemuel, v’Yamin, v’Ohad, v’Yachin, v’Zohar, v’Shaul ben haCnaanit. V’bnei Levi: Gershon, Kohath, u’Merari. V’bnei Yudah: Er, v’Onan, v’Shelah, v’Perez, v’Zerah; vayamat Er v’Onan beretz Cnaan veyehu bnei Perez Hezron v’Hamul. V’bnei Issachar: Tola, u’Puvah, v’Iob, v’Shimron. U’bnei Zevulun: Sered, v’Elon, v’Yahle’el. Ele bnei Leah asher yalda leYaakov bePaddan-Aram ve’et Dinah bito. Kol nefesh banav u’bnotav, shloshim veshalosh. U’bnei Gad: Ziphion, v’Haggi, Shuni, v’Ezbon, Eri, v’Arodi, v’Areli. V’bnei Asher: Imnah, v’Ishvah, v’Ishvi, v’Beriah, v’Serah achotam. V’bnei Beriah: Heber, u’Malchiel. Ela bnei Zilpah asher natan Lavan leLeah bito. Vateled et ele leYaakov, shesh-esre nafesh. Bnei Rachel eshet Yaakov: Yosef u’Benjamin. Vayivaled leYosef beretz Mitzrayim, asher yaldah lo Asenath, bat Poti-phera Kohen On et Menashe ve et Ephraim. U’bnei Benjamin: Bela, v’Becher, v’Ashbel, Gera, v’Naaman, Ehi, v’Rosh, Muppim, v’Huppim, v’Ard. Ele bnei Rachel asher yulad leYaakov kol nefesh arba-asar. U’bnei Dan: Hushim. U’bnei Naphtali: Yahzeel, v’Guni, v’Yezer, v’Shillem. Ele bnei Bilhah, asher natan Lavan leRachel bito. Vateled et ele leYaakov, kol nefesh shivah. Kol nefesh habaah leYaakov Mitzrayima, yotzei Yericho milvad neshi bnei Yaakov, kol nefesh shishim vashesh. U’bnei Yosef asher yulad lo be’Mitzrayim, nefesh shnayim; kol hanfesh lebeit Yaakov habaah Mitzrayima shivim.” There. That wasn’t so bad.

Keith: I want to tell Nehemia, todah rabah, haver sheli.

Nehemia: Al lo davar. No problem.

Keith: Thank you for taking the time to read it. And you know what? I do say this more for those who are listening, you don’t have to read them all in Hebrew, though they are Hebrew names. But sometimes, by taking the time to read the names, we’ll get to lists, we’ll get to Numbers, and people are like, “What could possibly be significant about that?” But it’s Scripture. It’s still Scripture. As we get our eyes opened, who knows something could pop off the page. Amen?

Nehemia: Amen.

Jono: Amen. As an English speaker, I just want to say that was awesome. That was awesome listening to that. So thank you, Nehemia, for reading that out. “All the persons who went with Jacob to Egypt, who came out from his body, besides Jacob’s sons’ wives, were sixty-six persons in all. And the sons of Joseph who were born to him in Egypt were two persons. All the persons of the house of Jacob who went to Egypt were seventy.” There we are.

Keith: Stop. I have a question. What is 70?

Nehemia: People have written whole books about this, so maybe we shouldn’t get drawn into that particular… like, there’s a tradition that it was 75…

Keith: No, listen, the reason… I’m not bringing it up for there to be an answer. I’m bringing it up because there are questions.

Nehemia: Right. There are definitely questions. It depends on how you count them.

Keith: Okay, so why would there be different opinions? Why do you say it depends on how you count them? You don’t have into any great depth.

Nehemia: I would say that 70 is a round number and that it wants to get to seventy. So why, for example, does it count Joseph’s wife, but doesn’t count any of the other wives of the brothers? I think the answer is that it wants to get to 70 because 70 in Hebrew is like a number of completion.

Keith: That’s what I was looking for!

Jono: So there we are, we’re at 70. And it goes on to say, well, Joseph meets up with them, he preps him, he says, “Hey, you guys are going to talk to the Pharaoh. He’s going to ask you what you do for a living; this is what you say. You say that your occupation has been livestock since your youth, both we and also our fathers may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination to the Egyptians.” And so set yourself up there.

Now, Nehemia, “Then Pharaoh spoke to Joseph, saying, ‘Your father and your brothers have come to you. The land of Egypt is before you. Have your father and brothers dwell in the best of the land; let them dwell in the land of Goshen. And if you know any competent men among them, then make them chief herdsmen over my livestock.’” Okay, now, his livestock is what? It’s cattle, I suppose; it’s not sheep.

Nehemia: No, he definitely has sheep. The word tzon refers to sheep and goats.

Jono: They’re his pets?

Nehemia: Well, he probably milks them.

Keith: You’re telling me he’s got a whole flock of gods.

Nehemia: He’s got a whole flock of gods, yes. He probably milks them and drinks the milk. And then he may also sacrifice them to themselves, that’s part of the pagan mentality.

Jono: Okay.

Nehemia: By the way, one of the reasons they’re in the land of Goshen is if you brought them into other parts – Egypt is very interesting, I’m talking about ancient Egypt, because most of ancient Egypt was a desert, and really only within a very small distance from the Nile was there land that you could raise crops on, and that’s because basically that water of the Nile was diverted to then flood the fields, and that was the water that field got for their crops. So if you went, I don’t know, ten miles away from the Nile, you were in some of the harshest desert in the world. But right up against the Nile, you were in some of the lushest fields in the world. This is one of the reasons that they’re terrified of having sheep in most of Egypt – because sheep will go through an area and completely eat it down to the nub, and they’ll turn that lush area into a desert in no time. So it was very dangerous to have a large number of sheep back then in most of Egypt.

Now, in the land of Goshen, there you have all these little branches breaking off the Nile River, as you have a whole delta, a whole triangular area that’s full of agricultural activity, and so there it’s less of a problem. But I think that’s why they needed to be in Goshen, also to be separate. That specific land was important because it could maintain sheep there, whereas in the rest of Egypt it’d be a bad idea.

Jono: This has got nothing to do with anything, but it just so happened that yesterday I was at a sheep dairy, which is a very rare thing here in Australia. And not only that, but the sheep dairy consisted of what is called Awassi sheep, which were imported from Israel, they’re Israeli sheep. They’re an incredible animal. Their tails are massive, big, fat tails at the back of them. We were thinking about getting some for milk. We’ve got goats here, but there are different kinds of cheeses that you can make with sheep’s milk. We decided against it – they don’t look easy to milk. But it was fascinating, anyhow.

Keith: Jono, you make your own cheese?

Jono: Chani makes her own cheese. She makes goat cheese.

Keith: I want to give a plug to Chani. She needs to come up with a cookbook. The things that she creates and you tease us with. She’s got to do a cookbook. It’s impressive, everybody. You’ve got to hear about Chani’s breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and tea, and cheese, and all these things.

Jono: We’ll do a show on that sometime.

Nehemia: I want to talk about verse 9 if we can jump to that?

Jono: That’s exactly where I’m going.

Nehemia: So read us that verse in your translation, Jono.

Jono: Okay, let me start from verse 7, “Then Joseph brought in his father Jacob and set him before Pharaoh; and Jacob blessed Pharaoh. Pharaoh said to Jacob, ‘How old are you?’ And Jacob said to Pharaoh, ‘The days of the years of my pilgrimage are one hundred and thirty years; few and evil have been the days of the years of my life, and they have not attained to the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.’”

Nehemia: So what is this? Is this a genuine… it doesn’t sound genuine. I mean, what is he saying here? The guy is 130 years old, what’s he complaining about? I think this is a real question. You know, we should all be so pitiful that we only live to be 130 years old. Are you serious?

Jono: I’ll tell you what I thought when I read that. When I read that, and I reflected back on his life with, I suppose, I don’t know if pessimistic is the right word, but I remembered things like what happened with Esau, what happened with Laban, and getting Leah instead of Rachel, and then Rachel dying, and then what happened to Joseph believing that he was dead, and walking with a limp. And all these things that weighed him down, seemingly, perhaps he just felt like a man who had lived a very hard life.

Nehemia: Maybe. That’s a possibility.

Keith: I looked at it as he’s in front of Pharaoh and he doesn’t want to make himself more prosperous or bigger than… I mean it’s almost he’s taking…

Nehemia: Come on, Keith. Preach that, come on.

Keith: I look at him as taking this sort of false humility, “I’m here in front of Pharaoh. I can’t let Pharaoh really know that I’m living on a promise from God. It says that my descendants are going to be more than the sand of the sea, and that God has promised these things. But I’m in front of Pharaoh, so I’ll play the role of, ‘I’ve got a pitiful life, not so much, not so great. Who am I? I’m just small…’” that’s just the way I read it.

Nehemia: I read it that way, too, but Jono could be right. I think the reason I read it the way you read it, Keith, is that there is this thing, maybe I shouldn’t tell people this. But there is this thing in Jewish culture of kind of downplaying what you have, and I think that comes in modern times from living in foreign lands for so long. And our host nations, or captors, as they were, looking jealously at the blessings that the people of Israel have gotten, and so there is this cultural attitude of, I don’t know, the billionaire walking out in the garment that’s all rags and with tears in it so that the Gentiles don’t see and be jealous. I wonder if that’s not what’s happening here. Maybe I’m reading a modern cultural value into this. But there is this idea of not being ostentatious and showing off how God has blessed you, because that will then incite the anger and jealousy of others. That may be what’s going on here.

Jono: Perhaps. “So Jacob blessed Pharaoh and went out from before Pharaoh.” So we don’t know what he said over him, but it’s interesting that he blessed him.

Nehemia: Yes, that’s true.

Jono: In any case, moving right along, Joseph deals with the famine, because we’ve still got a number of years left, and when everything had run out and all the food has run out, they start buying and buying and buying from Joseph, and they’re paying the money to Pharaoh. Then the money fails, the money runs out. And they said, “Look should we charge…?”

Nehemia: Are you talking about the upcoming American financial crisis?

Jono: It’s funny when I read, this is verse 15, “So when the money failed,” is what I’ve got here, “in the land of Egypt and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came to Joseph and said, ‘Give us bread, for why should we die in your presence? For the money has failed.’” Interesting. But in verse 16, “Joseph said, ‘Give your livestock for bread if the money is gone,’” is what it says in 16. So I’m assuming that it’s like not their financial system has failed, like they’re seeing the Band-Aids patching up what’s eventually going to explode. It just seems like the currency has dried up. What do you reckon?

Nehemia: I mean it’s not actually currency, obviously. They didn’t have currency until the Greek times, until around the 7th century BC – it started in Asia Minor and that area. When it says here in Hebrew kesef, it actually means, literally, silver. So the silver has dried up, and the gold probably dried up way before that, and once there’s no more silver to trade, then they’re starting to barter for things that you can actually eat, but you can’t eat the silver. Then I love this little – I don’t know if I love or hate – but in verse 25 it says… could you read verses 25-26 for us in your English?

Jono: “So they said, ‘You have saved our lives.’” This is after they ran out of livestock, so they said, “Buy us and our land.” And so they did that. And then, Pharaoh owned everything, and so on and so forth.

Nehemia: So let’s get the background here in verse 24; read verse 24 for us.

Jono: “And it came to pass in the harvest that you shall give one-fifth to Pharaoh, four-fifths shall be your own, as seed for the field and for your food and those of your households and as food for your little ones.”

Nehemia: So Pharaoh owning the land means that henceforth there’s a 20% tax, that’s what that means. You’ve got to give 20%, one-fifth, to Pharaoh. Up until then, they didn’t have to give that.

Jono: True.

Nehemia: Keep going, verse 25.

Jono: “So they said, ‘You have saved our lives; let us find favor in your sight, in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh’s servants.’”

Nehemia: Servants in Hebrew is avadim, slaves.

Jono: We’ll be Pharaoh’s slaves.

Nehemia: Verse 26?

Jono: “And Joseph made a law over the land of Egypt to this day, that Pharaoh should have one-fifth, except for the land of the priests only, which did not become Pharaoh’s.”

Nehemia: The reason is that the priests have a stipend they get from Pharaoh anyway, so they don’t need to sell their land to Pharaoh. But the rest of the population sells their land to Pharaoh, and he says, “Look, I can’t work this land. You stay on the land, just give me 20%, and you’ll be my slaves working the land for me.” Isn’t it interesting? A 20% tax was considered slavery back then, and you’d say no more.

Jono: How about that.

Keith: Hold on. Wait a minute. I know we’re going to talk about this later, but you mean to tell me that the priests in Egypt had the Levitical benefit?

Nehemia: Well, they had the land and they had the Levitical benefits. They get a regular stipend from Pharaoh, because of that they didn’t have to sell their land. That’s what it says in verse 22. And by the way, the word there that is used is “Kohen”. The same word that was used to describe Melchizedek, and that’s used to describe Aaron’s priestly line, and the priests of On that we mentioned in the previous session. So “Kohen” here doesn’t mean a proper biblical priest, these are pagan priests.

Jono: Sure.

Keith: They still have this idea that they get their benefits for being…

Jono: For being false.

Nehemia: Oh yes – he’s got to pay them so that they’ll maintain the fertility of the land, I’m not sure that was working out so well that year. But he’s got to pay them to keep the gods happy. So they have a stipend so they don’t need to sell their land. The rest of Egypt sells their land, becomes Pharaoh slaves, and starts paying the annual, in perpetuity, 20% tax.

Keith: So for those of us who are men of the cloth and are ordained in the churches, we have a right, which goes back to the Egyptian times.

Nehemia: Good luck with that.

Jono: The tax exemption, there you go. But isn’t that still there, the tax exemption for the approved state religions if you’re on the list.

Keith: Okay, there it is.

Jono: Truth2U isn’t one of those. Anyway, neither is Jonoism.

Nehemia: That might be an Australian thing. I think that varies from country to country.

Jono: I think there’s something similar in the States.

Nehemia: So in the States basically you can… well, whatever, let’s not get into it.

Jono: Okay, let’s not start there.

Keith: What are you talking about?

Nehemia: No, because in the States you could start a religion that worships little green men and set up a 501(c)(3) and you’ll be tax exempt. It doesn’t matter if “little green men” is a state recognized religion or not, because the fact that you have any kind of belief or something like that, the US government says, “We’re not going to get involved in that. We’re going to stay out of whether your religion is like a recognized…

Jono: The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Nehemia: Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you have devotees to that Flying Spaghetti Monster, do whatever you want, just do it within this legal framework.

Jono: Okay, there it is. Now, listen…

Nehemia: No, and I say that because there are countries, and I don’t know about Australian law, but there are countries like Germany where you can have a denomination of hundreds of thousands of people, but if it’s not on the list of state-recognized denominations, then they don’t get any kind of tax exemption or tax benefits in Germany.

Jono: Yes, it’s similar in Australia.

Nehemia: Which is a barbaric law, in my eyes, because in a democracy the government has no place deciding what is a legitimate religion and what is not, what is a legitimate faith and what is not.

Jono: Wow. We just went from religion into politics, that’s never happened before. You know what else hasn’t happened before – is we’ve run out of Torah portion. That’s a first. I mean there’s one more verse.

Nehemia: Did we run out of time?

Jono: No, we’ve got plenty of time. But it says, “So Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen; and they had possessions there and grew and multiplied exceedingly.” That’s where we’re up to, that’s verse 27. Next week is going to be Vayechi chapters 47:28 to 50:26. Is that the end of Bereshit? My goodness me, time flies when you’re having fun, doesn’t it?

Nehemia: If we have a little bit of time, let me share something about the land of Goshen.

Jono: We do.

Nehemia: Do we have a few minutes?

Jono: Go for it.

Nehemia: So as a Karaite Jew, somebody who believes strictly in the Old Testament, in the Tanakh, my rabbinical brothers and sisters have a hard time accepting that I only believe in the Tanakh and that I don’t follow the teachings of some later rabbi as binding. So they say, “Come on, you say you just follow the Bible, but tell us the truth, who’s your rabbi?” And I say, “No, I don’t have a rabbi. I’m just following the Word of God.” “No, come on. We know it’s not true. Tell us who your rabbi is?”

Jono: Jonoism.

Nehemia: So finally I’ll break down and I’ll say, “You’re right. I do have a rabbi. I follow everything that he teaches and he is known as the Gosheineh Rebbe,” which is a Yiddish way of saying the Rabbi from Goshen. And they say, “I knew you had a Rabbi. Gosheineh Rebbe is a Rabbi from Goshen. What’s his name? That’s the title, “The Gosheineh Rebbe”, but what’s his real name?” And I say, “His name is Moshe Ben Amram, Moses the son of Amram.” And they say, “Who is this Moses son of Amram from Goshen? Who could this be?” and I’m like, “Seriously guys?” I have to tell 99% of the people that this is Moses from the Bible, because some people are so used to thinking in terms of, “You’ve got to have a man that you’re following, you can’t just follow the Word of God; there’s got to be some man. It’s got to be a human being who’s an intermediary between us and God.” And I’m trying to explain to them, “No, I’m just reading the Word of God in Scripture. I’m not listening to any man.”

Jono: Amen.

Nehemia: Finally I’ll tell them, “The Gosheineh Rebbe, the Rabbi from Goshen, Moses the son of Amram, and oh, okay.” Even when I tell them after, like, “No, we know you have a rabbi, you just won’t tell us.” No, I seriously don’t.

Keith: You know what’s amazing? So I was listening to this, and I want this to stay on the show, because I’m listening to this because of my background, and Nehemia said, “So I’ve got a rabbi,” and I mean this is Evangelism 101. I mean, basically, you say something and people’s eyes begin to open and their ears perk up and they’re like, “Well, tell us. Tell us who it is?” And he says, “Yes, he’s from this place.” And they’re like, “Oh, my gosh, he’s from this place. And tell me, what is his name?” And he says his name.

But then if you say, “So what was his purpose?” Now, here’s what’s interesting, you guys. I was listening to Nehemia say what he was saying, and I said, “Boy, that took me back to the days of evangelism.” Because the idea is, everyone’s looking for where there’s commonality – we’ve got to find something common. We can’t just go to the scripture. There’s got to be something else. Now, for my tradition, I’d say to someone, “I’ve got a rabbi.” They’d say. “Well, where is he from?” I’d say, “He’s from Nazareth.” “You have a rabbi from Nazareth?”

Nehemia: Keith, this has got to be cut from the show. You’re going off the reservation.

Keith: No, listen. “And so what’s the rabbi’s name?” and I’d say, “His name is Yeshua.” And then they’d say, “Well, what does he do?” Now, here’s what’s interesting, guys. What’s interesting about Moses – what did Moses do? Moses brought the Torah. Am I right?

Jono: Amen.

Keith: I mean, the idea was the Torah. Let’s go back to the Torah. And what’s so frustrating to me is that if I would say the same thing and Nehemia says, “Well, Keith, who’s your rabbi? Where is he from?” And I’d say, “He’s from Nazareth.” And you say, “What’s his name?” And I say, “Yeshua.” And then Nehemia should say, “What did he do?” And you know what? If I could say, “Oh, he’s helped me understand the Torah,” we’d have some common ground. But instead, what I’m supposed to say is, “No, Yeshua,” and I come up with all these other things. And then Nehemia doesn’t want to hear it, and no one else wants to hear it.

And the reason I had to bring this up as an example, guys, you’re probably going to cut this from the show. But the reason I have to bring it up is what’s so powerful about what you just said, Nehemia, is you’re being led by Moshe to what? What does Moshe lead you to?

Nehemia: To the Torah.

Keith: The Torah, the Word of God. I mean that’s what I would hope as I’m continuing to learn and putting Yeshua in his history and language and context, that this is also what he did. Let me just be the Methodist for a second, this is also what he did, the idea that we would get to the Word of God, and where it becomes confusing is when we end up adding all these other things by tradition, by agenda, by whatever you want to say it is, and then we force these different things into different aspects that maybe don’t fit.

So I just wanted to say that I appreciated how you did that. That’s great evangelism. You had me on the edge of my seat. I thought for sure Nehemia, that you were going to say, “I have a rabbi.” I thought you were going to say, “And his name is Yeshua.”

Keith: But you don’t do that because you’re not a Christian.

Jono: Oh, dear me. Here we are all of a sudden in Matthew chapter 23. How did we get here?

Nehemia: Oh boy.

Jono: See what happens when there’s a little bit of room left over?

Nehemia: That needs to be edited out. I don’t know what you were just talking about, Keith, you completely went off the farm.

Keith: No, I’m on the farm. The point is you’re trying to get to the Word of God, that’s what you’re saying. Even though you’re using the connection for the people to say this thing, “You’ve got to have a rabbi. Where’s your rabbi?” But what’s the purpose? The purpose is for you to interact with the Word of God. And when it’s not the Word of God, it doesn’t matter who it is and what it is. If it’s not God’s Word then it doesn’t matter who it is and what it is. It’s got to be the Word of God. That’s why this whole oral tradition is so dangerous. That’s why present-day Western Christianity ends up being so dangerous. And that’s why all these other things become so dangerous – because they’ve gone away from the Word of God and they’ve created something that doesn’t fit. And that’s what we want to do…

Nehemia: That’s why you must acquit.

Jono: If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit.

Keith: You must acquit! Thank you, Jono.

Jono: And examine yourself for preconceived expectations that don’t hold up to the word.

Keith: Exactly. Now, let me just say this, we have time, let me just say this…

Jono: We have time.

Keith: One of the things that I’ve appreciated about my relationship with Nehemia, and now even with Jono as we’ve become friends over the last couple of years, is I think it’s really, really powerful when we’re able to come to some agreement on what we do see as authority. So all three of us have found something that’s common that we consider to be authority. Regardless of what my background is; regardless of what Nehemia’s background is, or what your background is, Jono, we believe that the Word of God in its original language, history, and context is authority.

Jono: Absolutely.

Keith: That’s a very powerful, powerful thing. We don’t see it as, “Oh, it’s a possibility.” We see it as authority. So whoever it is that gets us to the place of understanding it as authority – you know what? I can also accept that. So that’s why I’ve appreciated the way that Nehemia and I have had to venture into areas that maybe people would say, “Wait! You can’t be talking about Yeshua in his original language, history, and context. He doesn’t even…”

Jono: Yes, this is the question that… I’ve asked this question before. I’ve said, because we spoke about the Flying Spaghetti Monster – if worshippers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster were Torah observant, would I have them on the show?

Nehemia: What’s the answer?

Jono: I reckon I would because it’d be great for ratings.

Nehemia: It really would be.

Jono: Who wouldn’t tune into that? Maybe I should… no, maybe not.

Keith: No, but the point is we’d have to understand what the Torah means, we’d have to understand what it says. And if we find a situation where the Torah doesn’t match with whatever it is that we’re bringing as our baggage, then guess what? We need to leave it at the door, and we’ve done that.

Now, here’s what’s powerful, and I want to say this to those people that listen that have preconceived ideas about me, or preconceived ideas about Nehemia, or about you, Jono. What we have been able to do is we’ve been able to find the parts of our present, past traditions or whatever. We’ve been able to take parts of that tradition and say, “I understand where this is what Yeshua said, and this matches with what I see as authority.” You see all the sudden there’s common ground there. It doesn’t mean everything else.

What I’ve appreciated about you, Nehemia, and I can say this because you’ve said it publicly, we’ve been in a 10-year process, and in this 10-year process, how we started and how we saw certain things, how I would have seen Moses, or how you would have seen my experience, we came from pretty far apart places. But every time we found something that we agree on, we ride that thing into the ground. And it included something as simple as the prayer that Yeshua taught. Why do I bring this up? Because, again, what’s so powerful about it – that prayer that he taught is rooted in the very Torah that we’re preaching right now.

Jono: Amen.

Keith: So all of a sudden, Nehemia can cross over and say, “Yeah, this is what he taught. I see this as an important aspect of what he taught and how there’s common ground with me.” And rather, the other way would be this: I drive up to Nehemia’s house and I’ve got a U-Haul included all the Methodism bishop, the Catholic Church, the ecclesiastical, whatever you want to call it. I pull up and say, “Hey, Nehemia, we’re going to be friends. You’ve got to fit all this into the house if we’re going to be friends.” No, we don’t have to do that. We want to find out what’s authority. We want to find out where is a commonality and how we can connect together and proclaim Torah to the nations. I appreciate the fact that you’ve been able to stretch with me as I’ve stretched with you, and Jono, you certainly stretched. Now, if we can just get you to cut your beard off, we’re all going to be on the same page.

Nehemia: I like the beard, it’s a signature thing.

Jono: It is a signature thing.

Keith: I’m just kidding. I love your beard.

Jono: No, I know what you’re saying, and it is a powerful thing, and perhaps we’ll close with this. It is a powerful thing that we all agree, despite where we have come from, we all agree that we can talk freely about the Tanakh. We can talk freely about Torah because we understand that these are the precedents that set for anything else being true is because it’s found in the Torah. Nehemia, yes?

Nehemia: Amen.

Keith: Amen.

Jono: Amen. All right. So as we said, next week, Vayechi 47 to chapter 50. We’re going to end Bereshit next week, how about that? In the meantime, listeners, be blessed and be set apart by the truth of our Father’s word. Shalom.

You have been listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon’s Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com.

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