Torah Pearls #27 – Tazria (Leviticus 12:1-13:59)

Torah Pearls Tazria, Leviticus, Nehemia Gordon, Torah portion, seed, uncleanness, birth, boy, girl, leprosy, Miriam, Naaman, tanakh, yehovahIn this episode of The Original Torah Pearls, Tazria (Leviticus 12:1-13:59), we talk about the meaning of tazria, do women “produce seed”, why is there a difference in the time of uncleanness concerning the birth of a boy versus a girl, and is it a sin to be unclean. Also in this program, regarding leprosy, the stories of Miriam and Naaman.

I look forward to reading your comments! Download Torah Pearls Tazria Transcript
Torah Pearls #27 – Tazria (Leviticus 12:1-13:59)

You are listening to The Original Torah Pearls with Nehemia Gordon, Keith Johnson, and Jono Vandor. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com.

Jono: G'day to Ellen, who’s commented on the Truth2U Facebook page, and also Gail who’s commented there, and I just want to say thank you to the listeners who do comment and share the Torah Pearls. It is time for the Torah Pearls, Pearls from the Torah Portion with Keith Johnson and Nehemia Gordon. G'day, fellows!

Nehemia: Hey, g'day! And shout-out to Maria A. over in North Charleston, South Carolina.

Jono: Hey!

Nehemia: Thanks for listening; although the name of your town confuses me…is it north, is it south? I don’t know what that’s about.

Keith: It’s good to have everybody – not only with Facebook and all the comments – Ken Alder, I want to say thanks to you for commenting on Truth2U radio.

Jono: And wherever you may be around the world, it’s good to have your company. And today, now, well, today we are in Tazria-Metzora, it’s a double Torah portion. It consists of Leviticus, chapter 12, all the way through to the end of 15. And, well, it, you know, I want to say it begins like this, I’m going to read a little bit of it, but I’m going to do something I had in mind to, to head in a particular direction and maybe you guys – you know what, I’m just going to start reading and let’s see what happens.

Nehemia: Just be led by the spirit, Jono.

Jono: Ok. Here we go, are you ready? This is the way that it starts. This is chapter 12, “Then Yehovah spoke to Moses, saying ‘Speak to the children of Israel, saying, If a woman has conceived, and born a male child, then she shall be unclean seven…’”

Nehemia: Got to stop you there, I’ve got to stop you there. We’ve got talk about this first word there.

Jono: There it is.

Nehemia: It’s not the first word, but it’s actually the name of the Torah portion, Tazria, and you translated it ‘conceived.’ What do you have there, Keith?

Keith: So, it says, “The LORD said to Moses, a woman who becomes pregnant, and gives birth to a son…”

Nehemia: So, what it literally says in Hebrew, is when a woman “produces seed,” tazria, from the word “zera.” Now, I’ve got to warn the parents, this might not be a children appropriate Torah portion because we’re going to be talking about adult topics, and I don’t see a way around it.

Jono: Yeah. I don’t, okay, well, yeah.

Nehemia: I don’t see a way around it. Okay, anyway, what it literally says is when “a woman produces seed,” now what’s that about? One of the things that I’ve heard people teach is that, you know, there’s this verse over in, I believe it’s Genesis chapter 3, it talks about the seed of a woman. You know what I’m talking about?

Keith: Yes.

Jono: Yeah.

Nehemia: Over in Genesis…it says over in Genesis 3:15, “And enmity I will place between you and between the woman,” speaking to the snake, “and between your seed and her seed; he will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.” And one of the brilliant teachings I’ve heard out there is that, you know, look, the seed of the woman, this has to be referring to something supernatural, because women don’t produce seed. What people are thinking when they say that sort of thing is, they’re actually thinking in modern biological terms. When we say seed today, we mean something very specific, something that only a man produces.

Jono: Sure.

Nehemia: See I’m still trying to keep it G – rated; so, something only a man produces. But when scripture talks about seed, it isn’t thinking in biological terms, it’s thinking in the terms of the way the word was used in everyday speech back in ancient Israel, which is offspring. So, in Hebrew terms, a woman does produce offspring, and that’s why this opens up and it says, "ki tazria", when she produces a seed. Now why do they translate it as, “when she gives birth, when she conceives, when she…” what did yours have, Keith, when…?

Keith: When she becomes pregnant.

Nehemia: “When she becomes pregnant,” because they’re trying to translate it into modern biological terms, into modern language. But in ancient language “zera,” seed, didn’t mean semen, it meant offspring. Now sometimes it did mean semen, “sichvat zera,” we had that over in Leviticus 15, in a very specific combination when it comes from a man. But usually when it speaks about seed, it quite simply means offspring.

And a great example of that, and look, I’m not knocking people who want to say theologically that Genesis 3:15, you know, refers to Jesus or something like that. If they want to believe, that’s a theological…you know, I’m Jewish, I don’t believe that, but if they want to have that theological belief, go right ahead. But don’t say that linguistically, grammatically this has to refer to something supernatural because women don’t produce seed. That’s just stupid, and you’re just making yourself look stupid to anybody who actually knows Hebrew.

So look over in Genesis 24; there’s this great verse where they’re blessing Rebekah, who’s about to go off, and they say, “And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, 'Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed,'” in the King James, “'possess the gate of those which hate them.'” And, in the Hebrew it says that same exact word, “zera,” the seed. Now is Rebekah here referring to, you know, what is it referring to, right? You know, maybe that’s referring to some supernatural event, as well. But the seed is possessing the gate of his enemies, and it’s going to be thousands of tens of thousands, is what it literally says in the Hebrew. Well, I hope that doesn’t refer to the Messiah, because that’s an awful lot of Messiahs, thousands of tens of thousands. Anyway, long story short, when it says seed in scripture it doesn’t literally, necessarily mean seed in the modern, biological sense; what it means is in the ancient sense of offspring.

Keith: Awesome.

Jono: Okay.

Keith: Okay.

Jono: All right.

Nehemia: There it is.

Jono: And so yeah, “…born a male child: then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity, and she shall be unclean. And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days.” Thirty-three days. “She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purification are fulfilled. But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks.” It’s doubled, why is that?

Nehemia: Well, so let’s finish the passage and we’ll talk about that.

Jono: “…as in her customary impurity. She shall continue in the blood of her purification sixty-six days. When the days of her purifying are fulfilled, whether for a son, or for a…”

Nehemia: Can we stop here and talk about what just happened here? You know, if you’re not familiar with these passages, you read this and you’re like, what on earth is this thing talking about? Right? And I think the key term is in verse two, it says, “…and she shall be tamei”; that’s the important word to teach the audience. We have two states of ritual status in scripture; there’s tamei, which means ritually impure, and tahor, which is ritually pure. Tahor and tamei, tamei and tahor. Alright, so she will be tamei, she’ll be ritually impure, for seven days, and it says, literally, "like the days of the impurity of her 'davah.'” It’s a word that’s difficult to translate; it’s something usually translated as sickness, but what it actually means is her period. You know, sickness is a euphemism because they don’t want to say that. Maybe they felt that there were kids watching.

So, “…like the days of the impurity of her period, she shall be unclean.” Now what does that mean? What happens during the days of her ritual impurity, of her period? Well, that’s something that’s discussed over in Leviticus 15, and what it says there is that, from when the woman…and I guess we’ll talk about this more when we get to Leviticus 15.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good idea.

Nehemia: But, but…

Keith: I knew it! I told you it was going to happen.

Nehemia: No. But I’ve got to talk about it a little bit here. What happens is, when a woman is in a state of ritual impurity because of her period, because of her menstrual period, she is not allowed to have sexual relations with her husband. There are two verses that actually talk about that which aren’t in Leviticus 15, and I’ll bring those now. Maybe you can read them for us, Leviticus, chapter 18, verse 19, is the first verse, and these are actual prohibitions.

Jono: Chapter 18, verse 19, says, “‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. Moreover, you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife, to defile yourself with her.”

Nehemia: Sorry, something else; now Leviticus 13, when the woman is in her, the period of her impurity, meaning she has her menstrual period, but it’s not just when she has her menstrual period. Again, we’ll talk about exactly what that is later. But it really is a seven-day period, a seven-day time that she’s ritually impure, and during that entire seven days, even when she doesn’t have menstruation, she can’t have sex with her husband. That’s what this is saying here in Leviticus 18. And Leviticus 20 says a similar thing, “And a man who lies with a woman who is menstruating and uncovers her nakedness, her source he has uncovered, and she has uncovered the source of her blood. The two of them shall be cut off from the midst of their people”. That’s in Leviticus 20, verse 18.

So here we have two verses that are clear prohibitions to have sex with a woman in her period. What’s really interesting is Ezekiel, chapter 18…can we jump over to there and maybe talk about that for a minute? It’s one of the coolest passages in the Bible. Because it talks there about, you know, the Israelites believed that if your father sinned, you’re damned, you’re going to burn in hell, there’s nothing you can do. And God said to them, No, if you repent it doesn’t matter what your father did; it’s completely irrelevant what your father did. And it gives various scenarios about somebody who lives a righteous life and somebody who lives an unrighteous life.

So, verses 5-9 is one of the scenarios, the one where it talks about the man who lives a righteous life, and it lists all these different things he doesn’t do. And one of the things it lists in verse 6 is, "And to a woman in her niddah," her menstrual impurity, "he does not approach,” meaning to have sex with her. I think that’s fascinating because, of all the things it listed…you know, it didn’t say anything about sacrifices here, but it talks about a very specific set of things. One of them that’s worthy of mention in the Biblical mind is, something that’s key, is having relations with a woman during her menstrual impurity. So, it’s not just some trivial, little ritual thing that should be ignored, it’s actually quite important. And, in Biblical terms, according to Ezekiel 18, it’s a key thing for being a righteous human being.

Now, okay, we have the seven-day period for a boy that’s born, and fourteen-day period when a girl is born, that the man can’t have sex with her. And why do I say that? Because it says, “she shall be like the days of her menstrual impurity, she shall be impure.” So, what that means…what I understand that to mean is, that she can’t have sex with him for that seven days for the boy offspring, fourteen days for the girl offspring. But then you have the 33 days and 66 days, what’s that about? You guys have any ideas?

Jono: I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. Keith?

Keith: I’m sure you’re going to find it in Ezekiel or further in the scripture. Go ahead, Nehemia.

Nehemia: No, it’s not in Ezekiel. So, look, we have 33 days for the male offspring. In other words, there's a period of 7 days, followed by another 33 days, an entire period of 40 days that the woman is ritually impure, ritually unclean. And for a female offspring, she’s ritually unclean for 80 days: 14+66.

Jono: Yes.

Nehemia: Now what happens during that second phase, during the 33 for the boy and the 66 for the girl? There's a major dispute among Jewish sources about that, primarily a dispute between Karaite Jews and Rabbinate Jews. But even among the Karaite Jews, there’s a dispute about that. Let’s start with the Rabbinical position. So, the phrase here is that it says, let’s see, it refers to it here, it says, in verse 4 of Leviticus 12, "In 33 days she will sit with the blood of her purification.” And they say, well, “blood of purification,” that means she’s ritually pure for 33 days, which makes no sense to me, but it goes on and it says, “and no holy thing shall she touch, into the sanctuary she shall not enter until the completion of her days of her purification.” So, what the Rabbis say is that during those 33 days, or 66 for a girl, she can’t go into the Temple, can’t touch the holy things. But during the entire period of those days, she can have relations with her husband, and even if she has her regular menstrual period.

Jono: Okay, so that’s really weird.

Nehemia: The phrase they give there is, they say, “Even if she’s flowing like a river during those 33 or 66 days,” depending if it’s a boy or a girl, “she is ritually pure for all purposes concerning sex, and he can have sex with her even if she has a flow.” Now the Karaite position is the exact opposite, although again, there’s a debate among the Karaites themselves. Some say that during those 33 or 66 days she can’t have sex at all. In other words, during the entire 40 or 80 days she can’t have sex with her husband. I’ll be honest, that doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me because then, why distinguish between the 7 and the 33 and the 14 and the 66, right?

Jono: Sure.

Nehemia: In other words, what you’re basically saying is that the 7 and the 33 have the same status. So, in any event, the way I’m reading it is that during those 7 and 14 days she can’t have sex with her husband because she’s as if she’s ritually impure from the period; just like we’ll read about in Leviticus 15. But during the following 33 or 66 days, her only prohibition is that she can’t touch the holy things or enter into the Temple. But as far as having sex there’s no prohibition there. And that’s actually one of the Karaite opinions, the one I tend towards to.

Jono: Okay. So, Keith, this program is officially rated M for Mature audiences, and…

Keith: Right, right.

Jono: …that’s all I have to add.

Nehemia: How do we talk about this without dealing with these issues? I mean, you know?

Keith: Yeah, no, no I think that’s important. The thing I was– the thing I was kind of looking, I want to – you can add the children back in now – is the idea of, so this difference between a son and a daughter, and what that issue would be. The bigger issue for me was, I was reading this, immediately what I thought about, Nehemia and Jono, was I was going back to this idea of childbirth after the situation that took place with the serpent. After the Father comes down and talks to Eve and Adam and the serpent. And I just thought there’s just an interesting verse and I just want to bring this up, you guys, just as a discussion. So, what was the issue regarding childbirth and why is childbirth - is it the issue of the blood or is there also a connection with the actual birth of the child?

Because, and again, we can just have a short discussion about this, but the significance of childbirth, the significance of bringing forth this child and then just wanting to ask this question more for the people, I’m sure that some of them listening, so how is there - what is the view of – why would there be double the time for a female versus a male? You know, I have all boys.

Jono: That’s a common question,

Keith: Yeah. And I so…

Jono: And the other common question, Keith, is found in verse six where it says that she has to bring a sin offering, and people say, "Well, what are you saying? Are you saying that to give birth is a sin? What is the sin here? That there’s something – that the natural bodily function here is somehow, I’ve done something wrong, what does this mean?"

Nehemia: So that’s a really good question. Specifically, it talks about the priest atoning for her that he, you know, has this atonement for her. So, what is…and look, I don’t have an answer to that. That really is the bigger…that’s a bigger question. One possibility is that the word for “sin,” or “sin offering,” could also mean a purification offering. But that doesn’t then explain atonement; what does she need atonement for? I don’t have an answer to that.

I want to address, though, the other question that Keith raised which is, why a woman becomes ritually impure 7 days for a boy, 14 days for a girl. Does that mean that women are, you know, less holy? That’s something I hear a lot from feminists that, you know, look, the man was created first, and woman was an afterthought. And in scripture women are, you know, create more ritual impurity than men, and therefore scripture is anti-women.

Jono: Because it seems like it’s saying that she has incurred a greater level of impurity. Yeah?

Nehemia: Right. So, I want to offer an alternative analysis of that. In other words, look, you could look at it that way and say that men are holier than women, and that’s why women create ritual impurity. That’s why women were created afterward, and men were created first. So, I want to offer an alternative, and this isn’t something I made up myself, this is something you find in Jewish writings. Which is, if you look at the order of creation, it starts off with the simplest things, right? We have inanimate objects, and after inanimate objects, we have plants, and after plants we have animals, and then after…you know there’s the lower animals, the sea animals, and etcetera, and then afterward you have the higher animals, the land animals, and then after that you have humans, and then finally the last thing to be created is woman.

So, from that perspective woman then, if you look at it that way, is kind of the most advanced thing in creation. I’m not saying that as a feminist, what I’m saying here is, women have been given the blessing of being able to produce life. Men are involved, that’s true, but women bear a life for nine months. And there’s something holy about that, there’s something that connects them to God through that experience. If you look at the first child born, after Cain and Abel, or excuse me, Cain, who is born, she says, “Kaniti ish et Yehovah,” which means literally I have created a man…a person with Yehovah. So, a woman has this interaction with Yehovah through childbirth that men don’t have, that we’re not blessed with. I tend to think that that’s the reason that the woman is the last thing in creation, because she really, in a way, is more advanced than man; she has this holiness that we don’t have. I think therein lies the reason for the greater level of impurity.

There is this concept in scripture; we’ll see it in Numbers 19 with the red heifer, that if something is really, really, really holy, it actually creates ritual impurity when you come into contact with it. So, the fact that she has 14 days doesn’t mean that she’s less holy. On the contrary, that may be a function of her being more holy; the birth of a female child, and not the other way around.

I think it’s a matter of your perspective. If you want to come at this through the chauvinist viewpoint you definitely could. But I think there are a lot of clues in the scripture that there is a holiness about women that we should respect and honor. And thank God, you know, we have this image in Proverbs 31 of the “eshet chayel,” of the “Woman of Valor,” and I could talk for an hour about that, but I’m not going to. So…

Keith: So, here my money ball, Jono, was going to be Genesis chapter 4, and…

Nehemia: I’m still building up…

Keith: I was building up to my money ball in Genesis, chapter 4, now I’m going to have to pull something real deep out in…I can’t, Genesis 4, he took it. Okay. So.

Nehemia: Genesis 4:1 “I’ve created a man with Yehovah.” Yeah.

Keith: Anyway, let me say this. What I was actually excited about, as I was thinking about it, you know, you’re asking the question, but I did think about the complexities of male versus female. And one of the things I love about Genesis, in the early part, is that in…and Nehemia, you actually put it in really concrete terms. I kind of was thinking of it a little bit different, is that He made man, but He built woman.

And so, the idea of a woman being built, I mean, I just think of, in my background, you know, we have a different appreciation. In my culture, there’s sort of this appreciation of women in terms of the many things about them that are complex. And the idea that He takes man from the dust, but He has to form and build woman from the…taken from man, but then actually I see this idea of being sculptured, crafted, built, etc.

So, I like the idea that there’s a complexity with women; the fact that they’re able to bring forth life, carrying children for nine months, all those things that Nehemia said, it’s just really, really powerful. And I thought about it a little different also. I thought, man, you know, only 14…or you know, how many days for men and how many days for women, because you’re creating another one of these…beautiful and amazing creations are coming forth and they’re going to continue to do this. You know, women that bring forth children, etc.

Jono: It’s amazing; it’s a whole world of experience that us men can only observe, and…

Keith: Yes.

Jono: …the miraculous…

Nehemia: Thank God for that.

Jono: But there is that, but at the same time, I mean, where do we begin to understand what she feels, what she goes through, and the reward that she must experience in actually bringing forth life? It’s just an amazing, incredible thing that we can only be a part of on the sidelines, so to speak.

Keith: Can I just bring one other thing? Can I bring up a little something that, kind of, I’ve thought a lot about? I’ve thought a lot about this idea of children, and, you know, I’ve watched this happen with my wife three different times, you know, where it’s children that are growing in her womb.

But then there’s also women who never have children, but they still go through the process of having this cycle, you know, that takes place every month and I always think it’s amazing that there’s this cycle that takes place every month. And you know I happen to be in this mode right now where I’m dealing with this idea of time, and this idea of God’s clock and the idea that we have this wonderful clock that gives us this monthly period of time that we look at. And then I think about women who within their very bodies, they have this process. Now I wouldn’t be as quite as graphic as Nehemia on…

Nehemia: I don’t even know what you’re referring to.

Jono: But listen; no, but what you’re saying is so true Keith, because in both the solar cycle also in the lunar cycle and the cycle of the egg in a woman, if you draw these things to scale, you can see that there is clearly a pattern.

Keith: When you think about that and you think about this cycle and you think about the moon and you think about time and you think about the way God created things, I mean I’ve just been overwhelmed, absolutely overwhelmed, at the specifics and the ways that God creates and what he does. You know, I had this process where I was trying to figure out why chickens were able to lay eggs without the help of a rooster, I mean - just all these things in creation while one of the most amazing things in creation – one of the most amazing ideas that this concept in creation that there’s this woman that walks the earth that’s tied to the cycles of the earth creation. I think that’s just amazing, so…

Jono: It is, it’s amazing and it’s a consistency that you can observe, a consistency in pattern and order of our Creator, the intention and design of our Creator – really it is incredible when you study those things out.

Keith: And can we bring up one last thing, and Nehemia I’m glad you brought the technical terms of this idea of being tamei, is that one of the things that’s happening, and I know we’re going to talk a lot about this, but I want to just establish this very quickly. And I want to ask a very simple question: Jono, when your wife is in a state of being unclean does that make her bad?

Jono: No, no.

Keith: Nehemia? Ok, let me ask a quick question, Nehemia, when a woman is in a state of being unclean does that make her bad?

Nehemia: No, of course not.

Keith: Of course not. Now, you guys can say that, but I actually have met people that say, well, because she’s in a state of being unclean that means that, you know, she is…whatever. Well, what they often don’t do is they don’t just talk about what that concept is overall for men and women being in that state. We talked a little bit about it, but there’s sort of this idea that she’s this walking…in the old days, I don’t know if you guys have ever seen Charlie Brown, the cartoon Charlie Brown, but there’s one little guy that they call Pig-Pen…

Jono: Pig-Pen!

Keith: And, yeah, when Pig-Pen walks around there’s this dust…

Jono: The clouds.

Keith: …a cloud of, you know, but that the idea of being unclean didn’t mean bad, it meant, this is what you couldn’t do, the things that you couldn’t do, but it doesn’t say there’s anything wrong or anything bad about being in a state of…

Nehemia: No. Absolutely, it’s not a sin to be ritually unclean.

Keith: Exactly, I wanted to establish that.

Nehemia: The sin is when you then touch one of the holy things, like the sacrificial meat that we talked about, or if you go into the Tabernacle or Temple. That’s where the sin enters…

Keith: Exactly.

Nehemia: …and then specifically, what with the menstrual impurity, you have another aspect, which is having relations during that time. There’s a separate specific commandment that appears twice, two witnesses, in Leviticus 18, Leviticus 20. Ezekiel is our third witness that tells us that that’s not something that should be done. But that doesn’t mean that being in that state by itself is bad, on the contrary, it’s part of the cycle…

Keith: Amen

Nehemia: …which has to do with holiness, which has to do with the creation of life.

Keith: Amen

Jono: Now this is…I’m glad you brought this up, Keith because this was a topic, I was surprised at how many women feel condemned…

Keith: Right.

Jono: …by Leviticus 15, not really understanding it, and as a result of that, Nehemia and I did actually have a discussion where Nehemia did explain in detail…

Keith: Wait, wait, on the radio?

Jono: On the radio, we have…

Keith: Wait, why wasn’t I involved? Why wasn’t I invited?

Jono: Wait, do you remember that Nehemia?

Nehemia: I do, yeah.

Jono: Remember when we said…

Nehemia: Don’t invite Keith, don’t tell Keith.

Jono: Now what I’m going to do, I will post that up…

Keith: Good.

Jono: …with this one as well, so that people can… because really there was some considerable detail there, and not only that but there were many, many comments both on Facebook and in the comment section of the website of women so relieved saying, "thank you so much for explaining this to us." So obviously that’s something to revisit from time to time. And we’ll…

Keith: Yeah, I’m glad that we talked about that. That really is so important.

Jono: It is. Now chapter thirteen and on, really is kind of riveting radio, and I just can’t wait to get into it.

Nehemia: Wait, what?

Jono: Alright, what it’s all about is leprosy, where it’s the details of leprosy. I would encourage listeners to read through it in detail…

Keith: Hold on, Jono. Just a minute.

Jono: And…

Keith: Now, Jono, I’m not letting you off the hook on this.

Jono: And…

Keith: No, no. Ladies and gentlemen, I’m going to tell you we’ve had a fight. Okay, Jono wants to…Jono likes to…

Nehemia: I think Jono should read the whole chapter in Hebrew.

Jono: Sure. Yeah.

Keith: No what I was going to say before we get into the…and, again, listen I think there’s…one of the things we could do is just the general overview of what we’re talking about here. Because you use the word leprosy as chapter 13 was dealing with the issue of leprosy, but I don’t quite see it that way; it isn’t just an issue of leprosy.

Nehemia: Give us a Methodist perspective.

Keith: Yeah. No, no, out of the Methodist perspective. So, we have an issue of skin disease, correct? And that skin disease isn’t just an issue of leprosy, am I correct?

Jono: There’s various…

Nehemia: Well, look, it infects houses, so obviously it’s not a biological disease like we understand today. What I was always taught is that tzaraat, that's the Hebrew word, tzaraat, that tzaraat isn’t leprosy. Normally when you say leprosy what you mean specifically is something called Hansen’s disease, and that tzaraat is not Hansen’s disease. What I was taught, was that it was actually some type of spiritual ailment or malady that doesn’t really exist anymore to the best of our knowledge. The reason they thought it was a spiritual disease is, again, first of all, it infects not only people, it also infects clothes and houses. So, like, what’s that about? Microorganisms, as far as I know, don’t infect houses and clothes, you know, so what is that really about? And one of the clues we’re pointed at is the story we have in Numbers, chapter 12:10, can we look at that? Or…

Keith: Yeah.

Nehemia: So, you’ve got this story where Miriam, the sister of Moses, and Aaron are… they’re gossiping about Moses, that’s the bottom line, okay? It opens up, “When Miriam and Aaron spoke about Moses concerning the Cushite woman which he had taken, for he took a Cushite woman.” And what’s really interesting is we don’t know what they were saying. There was some gossip going on here. But we don’t know what the gossip was…he was mistreating her, or he was…what was he doing that they were gossiping about? Or, you know, she had a funny nose…who knows? We don’t know; it doesn’t say. But then it says in verse 4, “And Yehovah said suddenly to Moses, and to Aaron, and to Miriam, 'Go out, the three of you, from the Tent of Meeting!' And they went out.” Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And where’s the part I’m looking for…

Jono: No, no. I’m going to read this, let me read this, because this is a great story. I know we’re going to visit this in detail when we get there.

Keith: You guys are kidding me.

Jono: No, no, you’re right. Hush now. Okay, this is it, “Suddenly Yehovah said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, 'Come out,’” man you know you’re in trouble when, “'Come out, you three from the Tabernacle of Meeting!'” That’s that. “So, the three came out. Then Yehovah came down in a pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the Tabernacle and called Aaron and Miriam.” Oh! “And they both went forward. And He said, 'Hear now my words: If there’s a prophet among you, I, Yehovah, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. Not so with my servant Moses; he is faithful in all My house. I speak with him face to face, even plainly and not in dark sayings; and he sees the form of Yehovah. Why then were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses?'" So, there it is. Now that needs to be read. “So, the anger of Yehovah was aroused against them, and He departed. And,” verse 10, “when the cloud departed from above the Tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as white as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam, and there she was, a leper. So, Aaron said to Moses, 'Oh, my Lord! Please do not lay this sin on us, in which we have done foolishly and in which we have sinned. Please do not let her be as one dead, whose flesh is half consumed when it comes out of his mother’s womb!' So, Moses cried out to Yehovah, saying, 'Please heal her, O God, I pray!' Then Yehovah said to Moses, 'If her father had spit in her face, would she not have been shamed seven days? Now let her be shut out of the camp seven days, and afterward she may be received again.' So, Miriam was shut out of the camp seven days, and the people did not journey until Miriam was brought in again.” Wow.

Nehemia: Wow. So, what we have here is, she and her brother are gossiping, and apparently, she’s leading it, because she’s mentioned first. There's a whole dramatic thing we’ll talk about, maybe, when we get to Numbers 12, that shows that she was really in charge of the gossip. And God punishes her with leprosy. So, this isn’t like a regular disease that you get from somebody sneezing on you, this is something that has a spiritual aspect to it. We can see a similar thing in Exodus, chapter 4, verse 6. I’ll quickly read it, it says, "Furthermore Yehovah said to Moses,” to him, to Moses, “'Now put your hand in your bosom.'” Meaning, your shirt. “And he put his hand in his bosom, and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous, like snow.” So, his hand was covered in leprosy, and it’s described the same way as with Miriam, “white as snow.”

“And He said, 'Put your hand in your bosom again.' So, he put his hand in his bosom again, and drew it out of his bosom, and behold, it was restored like his other flesh.” So, this has been given as a sign, leprosy; it’s a sign that, in the case of Moses, that God is actually speaking to him. Here’s it’s the case that, it’s given as a sign that she’s sinned against God’s messenger. And so, it may have a spiritual aspect.

Then the third story we have about leprosy is…I know one you wanted to talk about, Jono, which is 2 Kings, chapter 5. There a person is healed of leprosy, and it’s done in a supernatural way. So, in all three cases, we have these supernatural connections to leprosy. It really makes me wonder whether this is actually a regular disease like Hansen’s disease.

Jono: Sure, and that’s not the only connection. Obviously, there’s also a judgment of leprosy like Miriam and the phrase, once again, the chapter of 2nd Kings, chapter 5, ends with “leprous, as white as snow.” So, Keith, can I have your permission to…I mean I already got a board meeting here in the studio, it was just me and I was officially bored, and I decided, I reckon we should read this chapter. Can we do that?

Keith: What? We should what?

Jono: Read the chapter, 2nd Kings, chapter 5. This is the story of Naaman.

Keith: Are we not going to Leviticus, chapter 13? Are you guys just not going to let me talk about Leviticus, chapter 13, is that the idea?

Nehemia: Let him talk about Leviticus chapter 13 and we'll go back…

Jono: Okay. Give us the Methodist version of…

Keith: No. It’s not the Methodist version. What I was excited about…here I was excited to talk about, and you guys want to talk about everything else. Hey, for those that want to look at Leviticus 13. So, Leviticus 13, okay, can I just establish one thing?

Jono: Let’s do it.

Keith: First of all, we’re not just speaking about leprosy in Leviticus, chapter 13, is that fair? There are rashes, there are…

Jono: Yes, there’s various…

Keith: There are different things that are happening…

Nehemia: I don’t agree. I think we’re talking about leprosy and how to distinguish it from other things.

Keith: OK. So that’s the point…

Jono: That manifest in various ways…

Keith: That’s the point I’m trying to make. We’re not…

Nehemia: So, there’s different forms of leprosy.

Jono: Sure

Keith: Thank you.

Nehemia: One of the reasons that I think we can feel safe about not really going into too much detail, you know, and like I said I think it’s the spiritual ailment that really isn’t with us anymore, but I could be wrong about that. But there’s actually a verse that very clearly says…here, it's Deuteronomy, chapter 24, verse 8. It says, “Take heed of the plague of leprosy," or, "be careful of the plague of leprosy, that you carefully observe and do according to all that the priests, the Levites, shall teach you; just as I commanded them, so you shall be careful to do.”

And what that tells me is that when they were reading this in the public reading, the average Israelite, when they got to Leviticus 13, was probably like me, he wasn’t really paying attention. It’s like, what are you talking about? There’s a raised thing and a depressed thing and it’s white and it’s green and what, what? I don’t know what you’re talking about! And this is something that God is commanding for Israel, but the ones who are commanded to be experts in it are the Kohanim, the priests, and they’re supposed to teach the people, because the average person reading this, I really have no idea. I’ve read that chapter I don’t even know how many times, and I still have no idea what it’s talking about.

Keith: Okay. Okay. So here…

Nehemia: That’s why we need the Methodist to explain it.

Keith: Here’s the Methodist, you guys, the reason that I was looking at it. I was looking at it from this idea that whatever it was that was happening with my skin, or whatever it was that was happening with my itch, or whatever it was that was happening with the mildew, and I have something I want to say about that.

Jono: Sure.

Keith: Just this idea that, again, back to Leviticus chapter 11, He says, “Because I am holy here are the things you’ve got to do.” I look at these things just like I look at the things regarding what I’m going to eat, what I’m going to do. I’m an ancient Israelite, all of a sudden I wake up one day, I've a rash on my leg, in fact, I’ve got one right now. Or I’ve got a little spot, and I’m thinking, is this…so, I’ve actually seen people who dress…so my point was, what I loved about it was, that you go to these priests and these priests actually have to know the difference. That was the thing that was kind of exciting to me; that he has this intermediary that says, okay, look you’ve got this issue, you’re not sure what it is, you go to the priest and the priest is going to be able to look and he’s going to examine it…

Jono: That is true.

Keith: He’s going to…

Jono: That caught my attention…

Keith: Let me finish, Jono! Let me finish before you go…you and Nehemia can go to some other chapter. Can I finish? So, the point is, you go to the priest, and I can imagine this. It’s like going to the doctor, no let me take a look at it, let me see, show me what it is. Let’s see, is it raised, is it not? And so, the priests actually become these, you know, these ones who are looking in on the people. And to me that’s just kind of a cool thing. Regardless of what the disease is, the priest actually looks at it and says, oh, no that’s this, we’ve to take more time for that.

And then, just in case you guys end up over in Chronicles when we end the program, I want to say something about the mildew. Because when I used to work for State Farm Insurance, one of the things we had to do is you had to go into a house, and we would always look, always, for ways not to pay. Okay? So, it was my job to go into someone’s house and to determine what’s happening in the house and what’s covered and what’s not covered. And I just found this to be…and I know we’re not going to read it…but I just thought this to be kind of interesting that they would go in and they would see these things that were in the house, and if it was this kind of mildew and if it was that kind of mildew.

So now not only is the priest one who looks at the body, he also has to understand construction and he’s got to be able to go in and understand what’s happening in the house. I mean, these folks are really educated. I mean these are people who have some real understanding, and why do they have this understanding? Because these things that could basically keep you from having your worship experience, your interaction with the Creator of the universe, these are things that they had to take seriously.

Now, we might pass over it, but if it were those days, we'd have to make sure we understand. Look, Jono's got a rash, Nehemia’s got something in his house, Keith’s got something on his chair, his clothes have become infected and he wants to go simply, and not look at it, and go to the Temple and he gets up there and isn’t aware of it and fire comes out and consumes him.

So, we don’t have to talk about it, but I just thought it was pretty amazing that these priests had to have this information.

Jono: Yes. That’s the thing that struck me, actually, as I was reading it. It is really one of the things that occurred to me is that, he’s not just a butcher, I mean he’s not…

Keith: Right.

Jono: …and I know obviously he’s got various functions, but included in those functions here, the thing that occurred to me, or the thing that I thought was, he’s acting like a triage nurse here almost. And…

Keith: Exactly.

Jono: …show me what problem is, let me see the symptoms.

Keith: “Show me the problem, and let me see it,” yeah.

Jono: Yeah. And determine what it is we’re dealing with here and let’s see if we can't figure out what we can to do. So, yet another function of the priests, and that’s fair that’s something to highlight, so I appreciate that.

Keith: Okay.

Jono: Now, can we go to Kings?

Keith: Absolutely.

Jono: This is it. Now, look, you know, boys and girls, come back into the room and make yourself comfortable. You know, you can read, obviously, read through Leviticus 13 and 14, read all about the leprosy. But I figured, you know, wouldn’t it be an opportune time to talk about probably the most famous leprosy story in the Tanach? And that is 2nd Kings, chapter 5, and it is Naaman and his leprosy. So, verse 1, “Now Naaman, commander of the armies of the king of Syria, was a great and honorable man in the eyes of his master, because by him, Yehovah had given victory to Syria." Now there's something to make note of. How about that? "By him Yehovah had given victory to Syria. He was also a mighty man of valor, but a leper. And the Syrians had gone out on raids and had brought back captive a young girl from the land of Israel. And as she waited on Naaman’s wife, she said to her mistress, 'If only my master were with the prophet who is in Samaria! For he would heal him of his leprosy.' And Naaman went in and told his master, saying, 'Thus and thus said the girl who is from the land of Israel.' Then the king of Syria said, ‘Go now, and I will send a letter to the king of Israel.’ So, he departed and took with him ten talents of silver, six thousand shekels of gold, and ten changes of clothing. And he brought the letter to the king of Israel, which said, 'Now be advised, when this letter comes to you, that I have sent Naaman my servant to you, that you may heal him of his leprosy.'" Here it is; there you go. Be advised, make sure when he comes, just do it, be a good boy, and I appreciate it. Here’s some gold and silver and some clothes. “And it happened, when the king of Israel read the letter, that he tore his clothes and said, 'Am I God, to kill and make alive, that this man sends a man to me to heal him of his leprosy? Therefore, please consider, and see how he seeks a quarrel with me.'" As if he’s, you know, trying to start a fight with me here. “And so it was, when Elisha the man of God heard that the king of Israel had torn his clothes, that he sent to the king, saying, 'Why have you torn your clothes? Please let him come to me, and he shall know that there is a prophet in Israel.' Then Naaman went with his horses and chariot, and he stood at the door of Elisha’s house. And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, 'Go and wash in the Jordan seven times. Your flesh shall be restored to you, and you shall be clean.' But Naaman became furious, and went away and said, 'Indeed, I said to myself, He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of Yehovah his God, and wave his hand over the place, and heal the leprosy. Are not the Abanah and the Pharpar,'” is that correct, Nehemia?

Nehemia: Yeah, something like that.

Jono: Something like that; the rivers, anyway. “'The rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?' And he turned and went away in rage. And the servant came near and spoke to him, and said, 'My father,'" interesting, "‘my father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, Wash, and be clean’? So, he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of the little child, and he was clean. And he returned to the man of God, he and all his aides, and came and stood before him; and he said, 'Indeed, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, except in Israel; now therefore, please take a gift from your servant.' But he said, 'As the Yehovah lives, before whom I stand, I will receive nothing.' And he urged him to take it, but he refused. So Naaman said, 'Then, if not, please let your servant be given two mule-loads of earth; for your servant will no longer offer burnt offering or sacrifice to other gods, but to Yehovah.'" Nehemia, can I just quickly ask, “two mule-loads of earth.” Why take earth as…I mean, is he going to build an altar?

Nehemia: Presumably, it’s to build an altar, yeah.

Jono: Yeah.

Nehemia: I think the context here, in his mind the earth has to come from Israel to make the altar, somehow, for the God of Israel, because they thought, "Okay, so there’s a God in Israel, and there’s a God in Syria, and there’s a God in some other place. So, if I want to worship the God of Israel, I’ve got to bring earth from that, from his country."

Jono: Yeah, interesting.

Nehemia: I think that’s the superstition.

Jono: “Yehovah pardon your servant: when my master goes into the temple of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand, and I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may Yehovah please pardon your servant in this thing. Then he said to him, ‘Go in peace.’ So, he departed from him a short distance. But,” is it Gehazi? “Gehazi, the servant of Elisha the man of God, said, 'Look, my master has spared Naaman the Syrian, while not receiving from his hand what he brought; but as Yehovah lives, I will run after him and take something from him.' So Gehazi pursued Naaman, and when Naaman saw him running after him, he got down off his chariot to meet him, and said, 'Is all well?' And he said, 'All is well. My master has sent me, saying, ‘Indeed, just now two young men of the sons of the prophets have come to me from the mountains of Ephraim. Please give them a talent of silver and two changes of garments.’ So Naaman said, 'Please, take two talents.' And he urged him and bound the two talents of silver in two bags, and two changes of garments, and handed them to two of his servants; and they carried them away ahead of him. When then he came to the citadel, and he took them from their hand, and stored them away in a house; then he let the men go, and they departed. Now he went and stood before his master. Elisha said to him, 'Where did you go, Gehazi?' And he said, 'Your servant did not go anywhere.' Then he said to him, 'Did not my heart go with you when the man turned back from his chariot to meet you? Is it time to receive money and to receive clothing, olive groves and vineyards, sheep and oxen, male and female servants? Therefore, the leprosy of Naaman shall cling to you and your descendants forever.' And he went out from his presence leprous, as white as snow.”

Keith: So, listen, in Leviticus chapter 15…I have something I want to talk about.

Jono: All right, fine, we can't escape it, is that what you’re telling me? We’ve got to go back here and…

Keith: I’m telling you…

Nehemia: So, there’s some really interesting things in that story. I mean, maybe the most interesting thing is that Naaman, coming from Syria, he comes to the door of Elisha and he’s waiting for the prophet to come out and do his hocus-pocus and put on the whole show. He’s seen this shtick before; he knows what it’s about. You know, the magicians, the prophets, they come, and they do these…they put on the shows. And, you know, in the end, he’s not healed, he still has his leprosy. Instead the guy won’t even come out and meet him, he sends a message; go immerse in the Jordan river seven times. He’s like, “Jordan river? We’ve got these big rivers in Syria, I’m going to…” and you know…this is what a lot of people don’t realize that the Jordan river is like a tiny little, you know, creek that in a lot of countries wouldn’t even have a name. You know, I come from Chicago where, they literally, in Chicago had an open sewer that was bigger than the Jordan River. I’m not kidding you. It was called the Chicago River and it was for all intents and purposes an open sewer, and it's bigger than the Jordan. You know, because you read about how God, in The Book of Joshua, God stopped the Jordan River and they were able to cross. And it’s like, okay, you know. That’s just not on the same order of impressiveness as splitting the Red Sea. Sorry.

Keith: You’re kidding me?

Nehemia: I’m sorry, it’s a little tiny puddle. Anyway, so here’s the thing. So, he, you know, he’s expecting some kind of big hocus-pocus, and if you’re going to dip yourself in the water it’s going to be in the biggest river of them all, the most impressive river. Instead, he says, you know, immerse yourself in the Jordan seven times. And the guy won’t even come to him, and he sees in the end that it works, and that’s the bottom line.

Keith: Jono, I’d like to say something about your story that you brought up, I really do want to say something, and it’s related to Leviticus in terms of the infectious diseases and all of this because what’s really cool about this story, and it really is connected to…I thought this is what Nehemia was going to say…was that as he comes, you know, Elisha says go and dip in the Jordan seven times, and for whatever reason that’s all the man had to do.

Now, he might look at this and say, I needed this, I needed that, what about this, what about that? And in the end, he did, in fact, do it, and then came this cleansing, came this healing. And when I read in these rules, these regulations, and these things in Leviticus up until the time that we’ve just stopped, it’s kind of the same thing, “go and do this, do this, have it infected, have this, have that” and can you hear the people saying “I’m not going to do that.”

But when you do the very things that God commands, if he commanded it through the prophet, then healing came. And so that’s why I think this story is so powerful, for me, is that it seems like an inconsequential… like what are you talking about? “Dip in the little puddle,” that Nehemia calls the little puddle? But the bottom line is, if it’s a command, if it’s from Him, guess what? The end result is healing. And so, for me that’s why I think it was powerful about the story. Not to mention, I love the fact that it says that there was a young lady that was there with Naaman, who was from where? The young servant girl; where was she from, Nehemia?

Jono: From Israel. She was taken from Israel.

Keith: Absolutely.

Jono: From Israel.

Keith: And what did she say?

Jono: It was her that put to him, “If it was some great thing that he’d asked you to do you would have done it…”

Keith: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I want to say this; she reminds me of the importance of the Torah, when I hear her saying that. You know, in my tradition, it’s like, well, if you give this and if you do this and if you do this and if you do that and if you read this and if you read that and if you pray this and you pray that. But here this little Hebrew girl comes and says, but, you know, he simply asked you to do something.

And I think about her saying that to us today, and this is going to make me want to pray for a moment. Because I hear her voice today that says this: Here’s what the Torah says, here’s what the Torah says, will you not consider just doing it? You know, in other words, I mean, people want to get around it, let’s get away from it, how do we get out of it? How? What do you mean about you want me to do this and after the woman’s flowing with blood or not? These are the things He says do. Hey, what if we just do those things? And then, let’s see what happens. So I want to say a quick prayer for that, we would consider as He reveals the information, as we become like Naaman, who says, "Okay, I need healing," and he says, go dip seven times, that we not sit and try to argue and say why this is not big enough and important enough and it’s just the Torah and it’s old and it doesn’t matter anymore…what if we just do it and see what happens?

Nehemia: Amen.

Keith: So, I’d like to say a prayer. Father, I want to thank you so much for this wonderful program that you have allowed for us to come into, struggle through, and to work through Your Torah. This important and amazing book, the Word of God, that you’ve given for the people of God to do your will. Help us to be able to pray the prayer that our eyes would be opened, that they would be uncovered, that we might see these amazing and wonderful and powerful and healing things in Your Torah. So, let us be able to not only see them but then to apply them. In Your name Yehovah. Amen.

Nehemia, Jono: Amen.

Jono: Can I just point something out? This is not really related to leprosy in any way, but it just comes out of that story about Naaman the leper, and that is verse 15. Because it takes me back to Exodus, chapter 18, and I remember, Nehemia, you made point of this verse when we discussed this in the Torah portion. And it was after Moses had explained to Jethro all the wonderful, miraculous things that Yehovah had done and verse 10 of chapter 18 in Exodus, “Jethro said, 'Blessed be the Lord, blessed be Yehovah who has delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians and out of the hand of Pharaoh, and who has delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.’” Verse 11, “Now I know that Yehovah is greater than all the gods,” he says. “Now I know that Yehovah is greater than all the gods.”

Nehemia: Amen

Jono: But when we come over here in verse 15, after Naaman dips seven times in the Jordan and his flesh is restored and he totally heals, this is what he has to say. He says, “Indeed, now I know that there is no god in all the earth, except in Israel.” That’s a different thing, isn’t it?

Nehemia: Amen.

Jono: It’s not saying that Yehovah is above all other gods, he’s saying there is no other gods; there is only Yehovah in Israel.

Keith: Amen. Amen. Okay.

Nehemia: Hallelujah.

Keith: Amen.

Jono: There’s a difference. All right, now I’ll…

Nehemia: Let Him open all our eyes like He opened up the eyes of Naaman.

Keith: Yes. Amen.

Jono: Amen. So, in any case, in Leviticus chapter 12, 13, 14?

Nehemia: No, 14 is the next Torah portion.

Jono: Okay. Thirteen and all the leprosy, do you guys want to bring anything up out of the…

Keith: No.

Jono: No?

Keith: We’re going to do next section.

Nehemia: Why don’t we end it with you reading the last verse, verse 59?

Keith: Yeah, there you go.

Jono: “This is the law of the leprous plague in a garment of wool or linen, either in the warp or the woof…” What’s a warp or a woof? What?

Nehemia: So, you know how fabrics have like interlocking, intermeshing pieces of like, thread…

Jono: Yeah.

Nehemia: …going in different directions? So, one of those is the warp and one of those is the woof.

Jono: Okay. Alright, “…or in anything made of leather, to pronounce it clean or to pronounce it unclean.” That is the Torah for those things.

Keith: Amen.

Jono: There it is. So, boys and girls, you can study chapter 12 and 13 and all about leprosy there. But there also is the story of Naaman. Thank you Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson for coming back on to Pearls from the Torah Portion; much appreciated my friends. I appreciate your time.

Keith: And for those that would like to read through 12 and 13, there will be a separate interview just with me and Jono. Look for that.

Jono: I’ll be reading it in Hebrew, in detail. I’ll be going through it in graphic detail, I’ll be reading in Hebrew, myself. You can’t wait for that.

Nehemia: Not for children; it's graphic detail.

Jono: Okay. Until then dear listeners be blessed and be set apart by the truth of our Father’s word. Shalom.

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  • Anne B Frazer says:

    Luke 8: 43-48. Y’shua not only healed her bleeding but made it possible for her to commune with YHVH and the community.

  • Teresa says:

    From a womens point of view it also protects the women when their bodies need to restore or heal from menstruation and from giving birth. It just shows how Yehowah understands his creation, he knows exactly what we need.

  • Nick Strickland says:

    It could be argued that Rebeka did produce a supernatural seed, as she was barren, so there is what Messianics believe that the seed of the woman came because Yehovah opened their wombs, which is a thread intertwined in the TANAK.

  • Elda says:

    Eggs are hen periods and only produce a chick if there is a rooster to fertilize that egg and she sits on the egg for almost a month The eggs you buy in a store are usually just a period and no rooster..

  • Nunya Biz says:

    Hence, offspring of Eve, one thunk he wud lie in wait for the headcrushing from the other, his punishment was too much, had low countenance in his sacrifices cuz he saw no use.

  • me says:

    With regards to the 40/80 Day issue:
    I heard that on Day 1 of the birth of a baby that the baby’s blood and the mother’s blood show no signs of white blood cells. Then on Day 20 for a boy (and mother) and Day 40 for a girl (and mother), the white blood cell count is 1/2 way replenished in both (specifically of a nursing mother and baby). On Day 40 for a boy (and mother) and Day 80 for a girl (and mother), they both are fully replenished/protected. For a boy (and mother), it replenishes doubly fast because males are protected with a sheath in the mother’s womb.

    With regards to the tazria:
    It’s MOLD. It totally makes sense. MOLD can grow on wood, furniture, clothing, in buildings, on live food, in live people, in live animals, etc. It can wreak havoc in a person. It can mimic many different diseases. It can cause a UTI, it can cause a heart murmur, it can affect your heart, it can attack internal organs (kidney, liver, heart, brain, etc), it can wreak havoc on your brain, it can cause skin issues (psoriasis, eczema, etc), it can affect your vision. The lists goes on and on.

    Check out the informative comment below from Keren Springer DeTornos (from five years ago).

  • Cindy Vaughan says:

    Naaman getting leprosy “a spiritual disease” when he is a Hebrew slave owning pagan, not in covenant. Is this “one of the diseases Yehova brought on the Egyptians?”

  • Cindy Vaughan says:

    Im totally gentile So, question, do you guys watch football ? Would the, “not touching the carcus”, mean a football ???

    • TERENCE SCOTT says:

      Cindy, it means just what it says. Now what I’m getting from your question is, if parts of the carcass is transformed into something else, e.g., shoes, handbags, footballs even a hair brush which inherently includes the passage of time, does the prohibition get nullified? Only in my opinion, I think no. Genetically, it’s still what it is regardless of form or time…tameh.

  • Dave Kimble says:

    Wonderful discussion again gentleman; always a pleasure hearing your light-heart banter with such deep appreciation for The Word.
    When you wondered why a sin offering for atonement was necessary could it not be because the spilling of blood requires it; even without intent? Don’t know but wondering as you all.
    The part about Nehemia hypothesis of women being holier because of their position in creation seems to make a lot of sense. It occurs to me that Yehovah made man from dust and Hava from Adam, and children by combining seed and egg and the Spirit of life WITHIN the woman; rather than from without. Creation within!!! Yehovah’s perfection! Awesome!
    I also find it interesting that Miriam was white as snow. If she was completely white,Torah says she would be clean also. However, Yehovah still separated her from his people for seven days for the insult to Moses before God.

  • Simcha Ochoa says:

    The difference between the time for a baby boy a baby girl is, there is a bloody discharge from a female baby during those first two weeks of birth. This happens because of the mother’s hormones affecting the female baby. As a midwife (45 years) I always have to explain this to Moms who have female babies. They are shocked at the clear, bloody mucus that comes out during the first two weeks of her life. How amazing that this happens!!!! It only happens one time during those two weeks. And then much later in her life, she begins having her first period. Here is this amazing thing that happens for young ladies and women, a bleeding that starts and stops on it’s own!!! What a creation we are!!!! Thank you Father Yehovah for creating us…..in the name of Messiah Yeshua, toda! Amen.

  • Mark Maier says:

    The Western Wall background was a nice touch, but it made reading very difficult – the words got lost in the plants and cracks. Otherwise, thank you for an informative teaching. Shalom to you all.

  • Luis A Cajigas says:

    Gen 3:15 says Elohim says….., and I will put “enmity” BETWEEN(Beyn) you(serpent) and the woman(Eve), and BETWEEN(Beyn) your Seed(serpent) and her seed(Eve). “He” shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise “His” heel. Most people focus on the seed of the women, but thats not what is says, it says ” I(YeHoVaH) will put something between your seed serpent and her seed Eve. So the seed is not of the women that Elohim is going to put BETWEEN them, but off Elohim ” this is something special that is going to happening. For the focus should also be on who is this “HE” Elohim is speaking about. According to the Brit Chadasha this seed is refer to Messiah. For Mary(Myriam) human seed could not abstain atonement for mankind “although she will carry this seed”, it has to come from directly from Elohim, For ths Holy Spirit came upon her and she conceived.

  • jAN says:

    Is HOly used for an individual? or is Holy used for legal descrition of the nation of Israel? Holy is a legal definition, defined only by Yehovah, not us. The length of time between male and female child is her wholeness, not hollines, is recovery time from birth process, both male and female have harmones that coordinate with mother to start the process, harmone levels in males are different from females.

  • jAN says:

    In a healty woman bears a son, talkes up to 30 days for harmonal balance, for baby girls takes up to 66 days for harmonal rebalane, or to become “complete” if after 30 days or 60 days wife still has the “blues” time to see the doctor.

  • jAN says:

    Seven days, seventh millinium.

  • jAN says:

    Also the word is a seed,

  • jAN says:

    Zera, offspring, seed, can be both, context agri bio language is Hebrew

  • jAN says:

    The hebrew letters are lovely, how artful.

  • Keren Springer DeTornos says:

    Shalom Nehemiah.
    The PRIESTs of antiquity that served the Israelites must have had vast experience in organisms. Many cannot be seen with the naked eye. Discernment and identifying them was based ONLY on presented Signs and Symptoms. They had no technology of micron microscopy or biotechnology testing to them.
    There are still the same microbiological organisms known of today, both aerobic and anaerobic, that are NOT visible in most cases to the eye, that cause severe “spiritual” and “psychological” signs and symptoms as a result of human body contamination of them.

    The whole aspect of the spiritual affliction caused by MOLD and other biological and environmental BIOTOXINS can indeed inflict severe UNCLEAN contamination and disease states inside the organs and especially the fragile brain tissues, and that also can manifest external deposits on our largest body surface organ, the skin and nails.

    White like leprosy? I have seen it manifest in patients in MANY colors and textures and witnessed it causing spiritual infliction of rage outbursts, schizophrenia, hallucinations and even catatonic states due to toxic encephalopathy, if the brain is the affected organ , by respiratory inspiration of mold.

    For more scientific referenced info please see Dr. Shoemakers research for validation and for an available free visual test that you can perform at home, to see if you are affected by biotoxins of chronic or intense acute mold exposure.
    https://www.survivingmold.com

    Healing of these treatment resistant inflictions can be successfully accomplished with intense detox treatment consisting of thorough tissue blood and lymphatic system CLEANSING, and with Torah prayer.

    shalom.

  • Rocky says:

    I have always believed since I can across the “issue” of the female that she , women are by far the superior creation in every possible way.
    Yes more holy they can produce LIFE!

    • Yehudi says:

      No, they CANNOT “produce life”! ONLY Yahweh can, but He uses the female as the instrument. And NO females are not “more holy” than males!! There is nothing in scripture to suggest that!

  • The woman has a seed it is her-half input of DNA the man has half a seed it is his half of his DNA ****Male and Female created Him them

    Bereshis 1:27Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

    27 So G-d created humankind in His own tzelem, in the tzelem Elohim (image of G-d) created He him; zachar (male) and nekevah (female) created He them.
    Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
    Male and female are the singularity in the plurality of Him

  • Shimon Dhunna says:

    Shalom, Could it be more simple, regarding the 1 week for a man and 2 weeks for a woman, and also for the atonement, IE, when Yehovah talks about man and woman’s positions of authority and responsibility, it had nothing to do with one being more important or more kodesh or better in any way than the other. The scripture simply states, (because the man was CREATED FIRST and was not deceived ) that this is only about, ORDER, and what we would call, first come, first serve. without any preference or respecting of persons.

    In the sameway I believe it is with the 1 week for a man, verses 2 weeks for a woman. Because Adam was created in the first week of creation, and then Chauah in the second week. So could the 2 weeks of being unclean for a woman and 1 week for a man, just be due to this order and cycle of creation, and not about them being better or more kodesh than each other at all, as I do not believe we are at all, in any way better than each other, and also regarding any ‘authority’, according to scripture, that a man was given over a woman, was given and mentioned at the fall of mankind, as part of the repercussions of her sin.
    So I believe regarding the 2 weeks for a woman and 1 week for a man, I believe that it very well maybe, as simple and plain as that, it being due to the order and cycle of creation, 1 week for a man, as he was created in the first week of Creation and 2 weeks for a woman because she was created in the 2nd week of creation.

    Also regarded the atonement for after she had given birth,
    psalms 51.5 says we are born in sin, and shapen iniquity.

    Again here I think the problem is, we are looking at man and woman separately, instead of looking at the bigger picture of Mankind as a whole and their fall in the garden, sentencing them, and the rest of mankind that was to come, to death, and a fallen sinful body of death.
    So we literally were born into Sin, and sin full fallen bodies, and a fallen Sinful world, that from that point needed atoning for.
    Every child whether man or woman, from that point was born in Sin, in a sinful fallen and cursed flesh due to the actions of Adam and Chauah and then shapen/(brought up), in a world of iniquity.
    So when ever a child was brought in to this world, it would need atoning for.
    I believe this is a picture of and shows clearly why we all need the Mashiach, that was prophesied about all the way back in the garden, after they fell from perfection and perfect relationship with Yehovah.
    Also it shows us why he never came the first time as the conquering king the Yahudim were waited and looking for, because sin will not be in, nor enter into, the Malkut of Yehovah and His Mashiach.
    So we all need atoning for and cleansing, before we can even enter in.
    Almost everything in the torah, especially the order and pattern of the sacrifices are a picture of Mashiach and what Yehovah was going to do and has done for us, so we can enter in to His and His Mashiachs reign, and have fellowship, relationship with Him, to be confident with Him, to be restored and walk in the garden of elohim in the cool of the day with our father Yehovah,

    The Torah keeps us safe and saves us from falling, when we follow and keep it/do it, that is, when we Sh’ma, (hear and obey) our Fathers words.
    When we do this, and keep and guard the Torah, that is the loving instructions, of a loving & caring Father, to His children, that they will need for them to navigate in this fallen sinful world, then will will be safe and kept safe.
    But the Torah, can not restore us back to perfection again (being the place from which we fell) after falling. Now atonement has to be made, before we can enter the garden and walk with Yehovah our Father again, and I believe He longs for That, much, much more, than we do.
    I also believe that the whole menstrual thing for women, is just another picture of Mashiach, where by, the body being cleansed by the shedding of blood, and would be cleansed by blood.
    Also this maybe is another, repercussion of the fall of man, as I do not believe there would be any need of menstruation in a perfect un-fallen body, in an un-fallen world/creation, I believe Yehovah in His hindsight, made all this so, in His love and compassion for us, to picture Mashiach, and the blood that would have to be shed for our atonement and cleansing, no one is entering the reign of Yehovah and His Mashiach, with out first being atoned for and cleansed by the blood of the spotless unblemished Pesach Lamb, the sinless perfect Lamb of Yehovah, that will return as the conquering king, the lion of the tribe of Yahudah, for his perfect spotless bride, after first having cleansed her, and made atonement for her.

    I believe it is as simple and plain as that, and has nothing to do with man or woman’s individual status and worth or either of them being higher or better/Kodesh more set apart in any way.
    The authority issue, between man and woman, his created equal co-partner and help meet, is a repercussion that came because of Sin, disobedience to the instructions of their Father and Elohim Yehovah. There would be no authority issue, nor any blood sacrifice, nor death, and I believe no menstruation either, and also, there would be no need of a Mashiach either, if their was no fall.
    We would still be walking in the garden with our Father Yehovah never knowing what death was.
    So sorry to sound so preachy, but I really do believe it is as simple as that, and that we need to look at the bigger picture. and let the scripture speak for itself

    Shalom for now achim todah, Yehovah Barak you and Keep you, Yehovah Make His face to Shine upon you and give you Shalom.

    With love Shimon and My wife Hadassah

    Baruk atah Yehovah Eloheinu Melek Ha’Olam.

  • Wanda Craig says:

    Love this portion Brothers! I learned a few new things today. Thank you so much!
    One thing I would like to share if you will permit me. My Rabbi has always taught us in this Torah portion, that the reason for woman being considered ritually impaired so that she could not read into the synagogue was for a time of bonding with the child and for the infant to have a fully developed immune system before entering into public exposure. And the reason for the big difference between a boy and a girl seperation time was due to both the mother and daughter having present in them hundreds of ovum, the possibility of new human beings to enter this world, and that in this longer period that mom would remain at home with her new daughter it would deepen the bond for her to instruct her daughter in the years to come in being G-dly and the gift she carries inside her is something very precious.
    Also, the reason for the seperation during the time of her monthly cycle, first life is in the blood. Second if she has her monthly flow it is because she is not pregnant, which means the ovum that was released into the uterus died. Therefore the woman has been in contact with a death and is therefore ritually impure, just as in anyone coming in contact with a dead body.
    I have to day, when I learned this, I was past my years to have children and in fact never was able to have children. I cried and cried over this undwrstanding because I never understood that just as there is sacredness of being able to conceive and carry a baby and bring it into this world, there was also to have been a monthly grief over the death of that ovum, the potential life that could have been. And once again I was reminded how very sad it is to not be raise up in a Torah observant home.
    Ahain, thank you for sharing you time and knowledge of Torah with all of us.
    Shalom!

  • Richard Tarr says:

    Are turtles acceptable as mentioned in 12:8?

    • Keywester 1 says:

      That’s a KJV printing or editing error; check the Hebrew; the word means turtledoves, not turtles.

  • Amber Munson says:

    I love what you said about Woman being a higher form of life because of her partnership with the Creator in the formation of new life. It counters beautifully against those who teach that women are supposed to be nothing more than servants to their husbands (which is pretty common in certain circles). I’d like to tell my girls about it, but I’m worried that they might take it to mean that they are superior to men. How do I balance it?

  • Lisa says:

    Shalom!
    In reference to today’s Torah portion, Tazria, I had a thought about Leviticus 12:6. Could it be possible the reason a woman had to bring a sin offering after the time of her purification from childbirth be because she gave birth to sin? Children are a blessing, for sure, but everyone after Adam and Havah are born with a sin nature from which redemption/atonement is required. Scripture is clear that each individual person must bear their own sin so her offering was not to atone for the sin of the child, but for the fact that she had birthed sin into the world through the child. Just a thought.

  • Sheila says:

    Could this factor into the 33 days for a boy and 66 for a girl?

    1Tim. 2:15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

  • Bonnie Stever says:

    It is so awesome to have 3 different inputs, awesome teaching from the 3 gentlemen, it’s so great to see that they can joke with one another, and in yet be serious. Bless You for that awesome teaching.

  • I think something that has been overlooked is the bonding time that in the last 20/30 years we have heard from Child Development experts as being essential and crucial in mother/father/child relationship. The mother has just been through a trauma of sorts to her body and her body/hormones need time to adjust and regain balance. During this time there is also this crucial process between mother and child and the bonding that cannot easily be regained if missed out in, in the first weeks of a childs life. We also know that post-partum depression/the blues happens in all women after giving birth and it has been the norm in many cultures to give a woman a period of complete rest after childbirth to regain strength and what betterway than to be left free of all other cares to nurture her child and bond with it including too with the father. We our His creaton and He above all knows our needs. Sometimes we don’t understand the why’s of His commandments but in then in terms of coming to know scientifcally and biologically how our bodies and nature around us functions, it makes so much sense.

  • Kristina says:

    Dear Nehemia, Keith and Jono – thank you so much for the wholesome, regular and witty input. It helps me understand the instructions of the Torah with the ears of the people who first heard them!
    I am a midwife, so the subject of childbirth and what Abba has to say about the weeks afterwards are particularly interesting for me. I couldn’t help noticing that you, Nehemia, weren’t sure when Abba would allow a husband to sleep with his wife after she has given birth. Maybe I can contribute a little piece of information: the “flow”, as you so politely call it, lasts for approx. 4 weeks after birth, so I’m guessing YHVH wouldn’t be pleased with a husband coming near his wife during that time! And I can tell you from experience with the women I care for that neither would she!!! … Just a thought! May YHVH bless you.

    • Keywester 1 says:

      I was horrified with the rabbinical teaching that sex could be ok even if the wife is “flowing like a river.” I think that would be rape. The average woman needs 4-6 weeks to heal, and if this is not allowed, infection can move in… or the uterus or tear under repair may be further damaged. If it isn’t comfortable – even pleasurable – for both parties, I don’t thing YHWH would bless it.

      Maybe the sin the woman must atone for is the things she was thinking about her husband during the delivery process. Or after, if he “approached her nakedness” before she was ready.