Prophet Pearls #15 – Bo (Jeremiah 46:13-28)

Prophet Pearls Bo, Jeremiah 46:13-28, egypt, jeremiah, torah portion, prophet, nations, yehovah, yhvh, haftarah, nehemia gordon, keith johnson, parsha, boIn this episode of Prophet Pearls, Bo (Jeremiah 46:13-28) Jeremiah, the prophet to the nations, foretells another “smiting” for Egypt—providing the connection to the Torah portion where the Lord, with a strong hand, brought his people out of Egypt. This time though, the smiting is at the hand of the Babylonians—a fact that provides another glimpse into the ways and means of Yehovah.

We learn more about the “iron furnace” that appears three times in the Tanakh—the crucible God used to turn a family of shepherds into a nation. We see an example of Yehovah swearing by his own name and Gordon provides an explanation for the “forest” in Egypt that was cut down. As we read of the “full end” planned for the nations of the exile, we’re reminded of the warnings in the Tanakh “not to be glad” because part of being faithful to Yehovah is caring about all human beings. Word studies include: “plague/makot,” “savior/moshiach,” and “tremble/maharid,”—with its root chet-reish-dalet and its connection to Haredi Judaism. Johnson closes with a prayer for hearts of peace—hearts that bring light and that hold God’s perspective for the nations of the world.

The original artwork at the top of this post was created for this episode of Prophet Pearls by Anna Jakubowski. It portrays Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon having dominion over Egypt and Jacob being protected.

"I will deliver [Egypt]... into the hands of King Nebuchadnezzar... But you, Have no fear, My servant Jacob..." (Jeremiah 46:25-7)

I look forward to reading your comments!

Download Prophet Pearls Bo Transcript
Prophet Pearls #15 - Bo (Jeremiah 46:13-28)

You are listening to Prophet Pearls with Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com.

Nehemia: Shalom chaverim shelanu. Todah shehitz’taraftem eleinu batochnit, Pninim Mehanevi’im. Shalom, friends. Thank you for joining us on the Program Pearl – what’s the name of the program? Crap. Let me start over. Hold on.

Keith: You’ve got to be kidding me.

Nehemia: Wait. What’s the name of the program?

Keith: You’ve got to be kidding me.

Nehemia: Torah Pearls, sorry.

Keith: Are you – what?

Nehemia: No! Prophet Pearls. No, because I’m reading the Hebrew. In the Hebrew, it says, “Pninim Mehanevi’im.” But yes, okay.

Keith: We’re keeping this for the show. Are you kidding me?

Nehemia: No, no. I forgot. Let’s start over.

Keith: You’re opening us up, Nehemia. You’ve got your new...

Nehemia: Shalom chaverim shelanu. Todah shehitz’taraftem eleinu latochnit Pninim Mehanevi’im. Shalom, our chaverim, our friends. Thank you for joining us in the program Prophet Pearls. Keith, what does chaverim mean? Can you explain to the people? All right, let’s just start. It’s my first time starting.

Keith: Oh, boy.

Nehemia: Let’s do it. Jeremiah.

Keith: All right. Here we go.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: We’re in Jeremiah.

Nehemia: Yes, this is the 15th episode. It’s Jeremiah 46, 13 to 28, and it corresponds to the Torah portion of Bo, Exodus 10:1 through 13:16. This is a section about the plagues. The reason this is chosen, presumably, is because it’s about how Egypt is going to suffer another smiting, another plague, but this time at the hands of the Babylonians.

Keith: I was looking again, back to the Original Torah Pearls, it was really something when we went through that. For those that don’t know, we went through that from I think it was in 2000… Nehemia, give me the year, 2012?

Nehemia: Well, no. We started in 2011, we finished in 2012?

Keith: We finished in 2012.

Nehemia: Wait. Is that even right?

Keith: Yes.

Nehemia: Yes. That’s right.

Keith: Whenever it was that we did that, what was really powerful about it is we were looking at a fresh look of the Torah portions. For those that don’t know, the Torah portions are parallel in here with the Prophets portions and parallel with the Torah portions. If you haven’t listened to that, you can listen to the Original Torah Pearls program on nehemiaswall.com, bfainternational.com. Both of those sites have access to the entire year of those Torah portions. What’s nice about that is you can listen to those every year. Of course, now Prophet Pearls we’re 15 in, hopefully, we’ll get to 52 or 54, and they will also be made available so that you can listen year after year.

But what was refreshing to me was to look at this parallel passage as it pertains to what’s happening with Egypt. I have to just tell you honestly, and I don’t know how to say this - I felt bad when I was looking at Exodus chapter 10 and 11 and 12, and I believe it is up until 13. Then I go here and I’m looking in Jeremiah and Egypt, boy, I mean, being used by the hand of God to do what Egypt did. I mean, boy, oh, boy, talk about stuff coming upon them. I was reading that from back then and then reading this.

Then, of course, last week’s portion that we did in the Prophet Pearls also speaking about Egypt, and we see it over and over again in Scripture. Of course, we could probably go the computer and see how many times we see Egypt being spoken about in its future. But it really is a central place, certainly as it pertains to the land of Israel, speaking about every time we talk about it, “Who brought you out of the land of Egypt?” Well, it’s not just that simple. Everything else that happened with Egypt just goes deeper and deeper each time.

Nehemia: Last year I was an English teacher in a Chinese high school, and one of the things I taught my students… I had to crystallize the message down to something really simple. One of the things I told them is my ancestors, the “you-tairen,” the Jews, they were slaves in Egypt. They were slaves that were liberated from Egypt by Yehoha, by Yehovah, and brought out into the desert, where He reveals himself to them and spoke to them. That was the key part of the story that they all understood. “Yes, your ancestors were slaves in Egypt. We got this.”

Keith: Yes, we got that part.

Nehemia: Yes. But it really is something I think in the Western world we take for granted because it’s just so known and so obvious. This was the first time they’d ever heard it. So it was a message I had to drive home.

Keith: Well, here’s the other thing about it, as we get into this, is when you speak of Egypt, again, the picture can be, yes, the movie The Ten Commandments for the westerners. The Ten Commandments, yep, they were there, they dealt with some bricks and this, that and the other. But they were brought out with a strong hand and this story starts there. But there was so much more, such a level of depth of what took place in the land of Egypt and then again, throughout history as we find. So it is pretty interesting.

Nehemia: Yes, absolutely.

Keith: Okay. Yes. So here we go.

Nehemia: Then there’s this phrase, why did Israel need to go down to Egypt for 400 years? It says in Deuteronomy 4:20, for example, it appears three times in the Tanakh. It says, “And you Yehovah took and He brought you out of mikur habarzel, mimitzrayim,” “from the iron furnace, from Egypt,” and the image there, actually, the more correct term probably is a crucible, which is this little device where you melt at really high temperatures, the iron, and then you can make it into whatever you want it to be. It says, “to be for Him a nation and an inheritance as this day.” So that was the crucible in which Israel was formed. They went in as a band of shepherds and they came out as a nation, and that also appears in Jeremiah 11:4 and 1 Kings 8:51.

Keith: You know something, when you’re reading this, as we’re starting in 46, I believe it’s 13. By the way, I have to say thank you to our Prophet Pearl Partners. It’s not often that we get to say the last name, but we have to say the last name here because it’s the family of some friends that we met some years ago. Nehemia, we were out on the road; I can’t remember when it was. Again, I’m really bad with dates. I think it was 2010 or something like that. We were in some place in Colorado - Johnstown or Johnsontown. I think it was my town. And we met these guys who were twins, and these twins, we took a picture, way back then, it’s the Mendez brothers, actually.

Nehemia: I think it was in Greeley, Colorado, actually, but yes.

Keith: Was it in Greeley? Yes.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: But the first time we met them… When we met them the first time, they actually came all the way to Johnstown to meet us. Then we met them in Greeley this last time when we were there for the tour that we did just this last year. But let me just say this - what was interesting about them is, it’s so cool when you meet a family or you meet someone from some years ago, and then, here it is all these years later - which would have been 2014 - they showed up for an event that we did in Colorado, in Greeley, with our friends, Sven and Tina, who really put the whole thing together, and they were there. So the Mendez family actually chose this section, and I’m going to ask them to actually write something we’ll put in our comments.

Again, everyone that’s listening, hopefully, they’ll use the comment section at nehemiaswall.com, bfainternational.com. Either way, wherever you post, post on the other one also because there’s just a mixture of people. So I want to say thank you to them for being our Prophet Pearls Partners. They’re the twins; we are the twins. They still look alike, and we don’t look alike at all.

Nehemia: You’re beginning to look more like me, especially your hair.

Keith: Yes. But anyway, so here’s one thing I wanted to bring up in 46:13. It says, “This is the message which Yehovah spoke unto Jeremiah the prophet about the coming of Nebuchadnezzar,” and again it’s that spelling, Nehemia, where there’s the resh instead of the dalet. We talked about it last week.

Nehemia: Nebucharnezzar, not Nebuchadnezzar. Yes.

Keith: Yes. But the king of Babylon… And you know what? When I read this, so we’re in our society now, where I could, like, for example, I’m a day ahead of you. So I get on an airplane, I come over here, and I call you up and I say, “I’ve heard from the Lord. The moon will not show up in the east.” Because I’m over here, and you don’t know I’m over here, and sure enough the next day it doesn’t show up. Well, here’s what’s so cool - Jeremiah didn’t get on an airplane and go and find out, “Now what’s the situation with Nebuchadnezzar? Now, is he going to be coming or not coming?”

Nehemia: Tracking him with a GPS.

Keith: Yes, no tracking on my GPS, no international travel. So he hears from the One who - I mean, so Jeremiah’s placed here in Israel. He hears from the Creator of the universe, this is what’s going to happen, and then he declares it. No sleight of hand, no smoke and mirrors, no “I’ve got people spying and telling” – No. I mean it’s an obvious thing, but he really has to hear from Him. There’s no technology that would allow him, or no internal communications where he can text real quick and, “What’s the situation?” I don’t know, it seems like something that we could take for granted, but it really is hearing from the One who knows all. And that’s exactly what happens, he receives this message from Yehovah, spoken to the prophet Jeremiah, about what’s going to happen, and very specifically with, by name, the King of Babylon to come and smite the land of Egypt.

Nehemia: Yes. So you have the word “smite” there, is that what you have?

Keith: Yes.

Nehemia: In what translation is that?

Keith: That’s the NASB.

Nehemia: Okay. I like that word. So in the JPS, it has “to attack the land of Egypt.” What’s really significant moreso is the word in Hebrew which is “lehakot et eretz Mitzrayim,” which is, you could say to smite, to hit, “lehakot et eretz Mitzrayim.” The reason that’s important, at least for tying in with the story in Bo, in Exodus, is that we have that same verb, that same word used to describe the plagues of Egypt. We call them even today, to this very day, we call them the ten makot, the plagues. So the point is that there’s a word connection there between the plagues of Egypt and the smiting of Babylon. It’s the same word in Hebrew. The word that you have as smite and the JPS has as “attack,” and the King James has as “smite,” as well. So that’s the word that means plague, to hit with a plague, and that appears in Exodus.

Keith: You know what’s interesting. I was going to ask you, Nehemia, I don’t know if you… have you picked a Word of the Week? I’m always asking…

Nehemia: No, I haven’t.

Keith: Could it be this one? I mean, is this something that you’d feel comfortable with? Or would you prefer to look at something else?

Nehemia: Yes, I want to save mine for the end, because honestly, yes.

Keith: Okay, no problem.

Nehemia: Those are some really hot verses there. I don’t have one, but I could choose any word in verses 27 or 28 and be really happy.

Keith: Okay, well, let’s do that. We’re going to wait for that. But what was interesting about that, you brought that up, about lehakot. When you look at the word and you’re trying to find out where that word is used, and it’s so… I don’t know how to put this. I’m still amazed at the way the Hebrew language is used, because again, you can hear that word lehakot, and immediately, in your mind, when you hear that word, because you heard Bo read how many times, how often? And hearing this most amazing event that took place, to know that there is a connection between the words. Again, for those of us who are English speakers, who are reading the Bible year after year after year in English, it’s not something that’s always obvious. It’s not something that jumps off the page. Depending on what translation you’re reading, you wouldn’t make that connection. So again, I guess this is the advantage of being able to read it in the language in which it was written.

Nehemia: Yes, absolutely. I want to bring up something a little controversial about this passage. Can we do that? Or do you just want to jump into it and then the controversy will…

Keith: Let’s get right into it.

Nehemia: Yes and then the controversy will naturally come up. So go ahead.

Keith: Okay. So 46:14, “Declare in Egypt and proclaim in Migdol, proclaim also in Memphis and Tahpanhes; say, ‘Take your stand and get yourself ready, for the sword has devoured those around you.’” Let me just read one more verse here. Verse 15. “Why have your mighty ones become prostrate?” is what it says here. “They do not stand because Yehovah has thrust them down.”

So I’m reading this, and again, the thing that we have to remember is that he’s not speaking here of Israel. He’s speaking here of Egypt. Again, we’re looking at Egypt at this particular time and before, where Egypt could be seen as a strong and mighty nation. I know people can really get into this right now. You see different nations, even in our time, Nehemia, where you’ll see a nation that will look like it can never ever have a change and then see a change come just drastically. I’m looking at Russia right now, and it happens to be December, we’re actually recording this in mid-December, and in the last week in Russia, if you’d have gone 20 years ago, 15 years ago, and said the word “Russia” you would have seen this mighty, amazing, strong-armed nation that’s had so many radical changes over these last couple decades. And now, in the last week, with what’s happened with the ruble. It’s like, “Whoa, what’s going on here?” It’s an example in modern times where we can actually see change. How far it will go, we don’t know. But it’s definitely a teetering situation. And that’s what…

Nehemia: Wait. This is your chance, Johnson. You can make a prophecy.

Keith: No, I’m not going to make a prophecy.

Nehemia: If it’s wrong, you can say, “Well, they repented.” And if it’s right, you can say “I speak the word of the Lord.” You can speak about how Russia will be crushed with the iron rod. You know, come on give me some prophecy here.

Keith: No, no, I’m not going to play around. I’m not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet.

Nehemia: And you know, it’s really interesting I’ll hear, especially from certain types of Christian sayings, “Oh, I received the word from the Lord.” That’s a really serious statement. I don’t know if they realize that. So to receive a word from God, that means… Jeremiah talks about this, and that means you were standing in the throne room and you heard God speaking to the angels. And I noticed in verse 13, I know we’re past that, but you translated your verse 13 that he received… what was it that he received there according to…?

Keith: This is the message.

Nehemia: The message! Right! Oh, right. So in Hebrew, it’s davar. It’s the davar that Yehovah spoke to Jeremiah the prophet, and the davar is “word.” We talked about how there are the three sections. There are the Torah, the word and the wisdom. This word means prophecy in this context. So you’ve got to be really careful about saying, “I received a word from the Lord.” That means Yehovah spoke directly to you or you heard Him speaking to the angels. You heard His voice. Be careful about that.

Keith: Amen.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: But again, speaking here about what’s going to happen in Egypt and looking at the present time… again, it’s not just Russia there’s a whole bunch of things that are going on around the world.

Nehemia: Can I make a confession here about this entire passage up until the two verses that I’m going to, hopefully, get the chance to talk about, which is really the last you verses? How do I say this without being disrespectful to the word of Yehovah? Because every word is precious, every letter, every jot or tittle is holy, but at the same time, I’m hearing this and part of me is kind of like, “I really don’t care.” Is that a horrible thing to admit? Do we have to edit this out?

Keith: Folks, no, Nehemia has just made a confession. So he’s going to be quiet the entire time until the last verse.

Nehemia: Wait. No. Can I tell you what I mean by that?

Keith: And I’m going to take this…

Nehemia: So this is prophesying the destruction of Egypt, and I’m hearing this and I’m thinking, “Egypt being destroyed and going into exile and being brought from exile? I’m not Egyptian, what is this? This has nothing to do with me. There are so many prophecies, most of the prophecies are to Israel, but here we have this prophecy to Egypt, and it’s like, when do we get to the Israel stuff?” It actually gives me some empathy for… I’ve encountered Christians - and this is really controversial - but it’s true. I’ve encountered Christians who I’ll be speaking to about the ingathering of the exiles and the rebuilding of Israel, and they’ll be like, “Where’s Jesus in that? We just don’t even want to hear this. This has got nothing to do with us.” Because they’re literally yawning and bored. They can pretend they’re interested, but they’re not. But I think this is a really important context to get.

So I’m going to jump to Jeremiah chapter 1 verse 5. It says, “Before I created you in the womb, I selected you; Before you were born, I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet concerning the nations.” In Hebrew, it says, “to the nations.” So Jeremiah was kind of an unusual prophet. He actually spoke to the nations, and maybe the other prophets did too. But Jeremiah, I think, even more than the other prophets, was speaking to the gentiles.

Chapter 1 verse 10, “See, I appoint you this day over nations and kingdoms, to uproot and to pull down, to destroy and to overthrow, to build and to plant.” In Hebrew the word there is “hagoyim,” “al hagoyim,” over the nations, over what we could call today, and in English terms, gentiles. So we have this theme that Jeremiah is a prophet for the nations, and we read here about… and it’s interesting, read the prophecy - and we don’t have time to do it -but read the prophecy of Egypt and the other nations and some of the other prophets, and it sounds to me like he’s speaking to Israel saying, “You guys, want to hear what’s going to happen to Egypt? It’s really bad. Aren’t you glad you worship Yehovah?”

Whereas Jeremiah speaking, I hear this in like... It sounds like he’s speaking to the nations, it really does, and not to Israel. There’s a really interesting thing, and we probably don’t have time to go into it. But there’s a whole bunch of other verses. But one of the verses talks about - one of the most important verses in the Bible - speaks about how he gathered in these… he was speaking his message to these ambassadors that would then be sent out throughout the entire world. Just like today we have ambassadors in Washington D.C., and if you wanted to communicate a message, before the internet, in the old days, one of the ways to do it was you would call in all the ambassadors and tell them, “Hey, guys, this is what’s going to happen.” That’s what Jeremiah does.

Because think about it, so he’s sending this message to the nations, like, did Jeremiah actually go to Egypt? Probably not. Well, he did at the end of his life. But at this stage in his life, he hasn’t gone to Egypt, but he’s spoken to the Egyptian ambassador, and he’s spoken to the other ambassadors and told them, “This is the word of Yehovah that came to me concerning Egypt. You need to pay attention to this.”

Keith: You know it’s interesting. When you say you read that and you say, it doesn’t… you’re like, “Well, I’m not Egyptian.” The actual thing that really does excite me is what I call this international hand, this hand that our Father has over everything. So when I read this and I’m hearing…

Nehemia: Yes. Absolutely.

Keith: The most important thing I think is in 13 when it says, “This is the word. This is the davar that He spoke.” And so he’s hearing this, so this is coming from the mouth of God. Immediately, whatever it is, and you’ve got to let me be the pastor for a second. It’s like whatever it is that’s coming from Him is somehow interconnected with everything. So I’m looking at this and I’m like, whoa, he’s talking now to this nation.

Nehemia: Right.

Keith: And again, what caught me in the very beginning was, I went back and read Exodus 10, 11, looking through those passages again, and again we did this Original Torah Pearls years ago, and yet it’s like it just jumps. It just comes right and grabs me, and I think, wow, this is this land that he’s speaking about. In other words, it’s not just a pass through. There’s something about it that, even as we talked about reciprocal justice and what happens later and how it’s all connected. I mean I just... wow.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: Well, you know…

Nehemia: Yes. Sorry, go ahead. So one of the things that strike me about… Like, I have this guilt. I’m telling you that I don’t care about this, and it’s not that I don’t care, but it’s literally boring to me. I’m reading about Noph, Tahpanhes, and Migdol, and all these places in Egypt. But I’m like, let’s get to the Israel part already.

Part of me feels really bad about that, feels guilty, and I’m reminded of this legend that the rabbis tell, which it not a historical event, but it makes a really good point, which I think is profound. It’s a story about when the Israelites saw the Egyptians dead on the seashore, they rejoiced. There’s a verse that says, “And Israel saw the Egyptians dead on the seashore.” After the Red Sea when the Egyptians were drowned. The legend, the midrash, says that Israel was told, you shouldn’t rejoice over My people who died. All human beings are My people.

Where did they get this idea? Well, that actually comes from the book of Jonah, where God speaks at the end, there’s the issue of Nineveh. I’m going to read that passage, because this is like the guilty part of me saying I should care about the Egyptians. I want to care about the Egyptians. It says. “Then Yehovah said, ‘You cared about the plant,’” this is Jonah 4:10, “You cared about the plant, which you did not work for and which you did not grow, which appeared overnight and perished overnight.” Verse 11, “And should not I care about Nineveh, the great city, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who do not yet know their right hand from their left hand, and many beasts as well?”

So the story there is that Jonah was upset that Nineveh didn’t get wiped out because he prophesied that it should be, and God’s saying, “Look, I care about Nineveh; I love every single human being.” So in that respect, when the Israelites saw the Egyptians dead on the sea, there’s definitely truth in it. Part of being faithful to Yehovah, the Creator of the universe is to remember those are human beings who are dead. Those are His creations, and that we are all created in the image of Yehovah. And so in that respect… like I said, I’m conflicted here. On the one hand…

Keith: While you’re conflicted, let me tell you what happened.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: Let me tell you what happened yesterday. So I’m here, folks, I made a mistake last week and said it was the most populous country. It’s the most populous city in the world.

Nehemia: And it’s called?

Keith: In a place called Shanghai, China. Yesterday, on the day which is Christmas Day here, which is like any other day in China as far as people being on the subway. After I did my recording with Nehemia, I decided I wanted to go to a specific spot in Shanghai and do a little checking about the Christmas time issue and see what other trouble I can get in. Anyway, I decided to travel, and this is kind of connected to what you said, so work with me here.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: I decided to take the subway on a Christmas day down into Shanghai where all the people are very busy, and I kind of had this in my heart, I needed to do two things. I had a technological problem - I had a problem with my computer that keeps cutting off, and Nehemia has already threatened that if it keeps happening, he’s done with me. So I had to take my computer down to the Mac store…

Nehemia: It’s not a threat, it’s just an announcement. It’s how it is.

Keith: It’s just an announcement. It’s just the way it is. So I went down to this place, and sure enough, there are people who have red and white on and they have Christmas hats on, and they’re singing Merry Christmas, and it’s Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell. They don’t say “L,” it’s “Jingle Beh, Jingle Beh.” Anyway, they’re doing their thing.

But now, to this whole issue of the nations. So one of the struggles for me is, I have to just be honest, is that I’m more comfortable when I’m in a place like Israel, just because I love the land. I love the language. I love the people. And the language of the Bible, when I hear it spoken and when I’m able to interact with it, it really just lights me up and inspires me. So I’m in a place right now where I don’t ever hear that. All I ever hear is… Chinese and every other dialect that’s connected with Chinese. And so I mean I’m learning that language and I’m communicating with the people and trying to read the characters. There’s 2,000 or some that are actually used, and 10,000 that are written. I don’t know what it is, it’s some crazy number.

Nehemia: You’re going to need 4,000 to be able to read the newspaper.

Keith: 4,000. So anyway, as I’m doing this thing, Nehemia, let me get to this point. So I’m doing this thing, I go up on an elevator, it’s me and about 10,000 Chinese people that go to the top of this huge place called the Pearl Tower. I’m up there, I’m looking, I’m taking pictures, and it’s beautiful. I’m here by myself, by the way. Andrea is back in the United States. My son, Andrew, is actually here, he’s… it’s another story, I’ll get to that.

But anyway, long story short, I’m by myself, I’m coming down the elevator, Nehemia, and all the sudden I hear, “Shalom chaver. Ma shlomcha?” The guy’s talking like, “Metzuyan.”

Nehemia: What? No way.

Keith: Listen. True story. Listen. True story.

Nehemia: He was talking to you?

Keith: No, no. I look behind me and the guy’s talking on the phone. He’s speaking Hebrew.

Nehemia: Wow.

Keith: As we’re coming down the elevator, I turn over to him. I say, “Shalom chaver Ma shlomcha?” He gets off the phone, he says, “Who are you?” You know he’s got this thick Israeli accent. “Who are you?”

Nehemia: And you said?

Keith: “Harbeh chaverim garim beYerushalayim.” I have many friends who live in Jerusalem. “Bemet? Lamah?” So he starts talking to me, and we’re talking for just like about a minute or so in Hebrew, and it shocked him to the point that he looked at me and he just walked away.

Nehemia: Wow. That’s awesome.

Keith: Now, why am I telling this story? This is this thing. So here’s this guy. He’s amongst the nations. Here I am, I’m amongst the nations. And he was so shocked that I was… he couldn’t stop and say, “What is this goy? What is this – well, this guy is obviously not Israeli.” Clearly I’m not Israeli. He’s like, “Why does he know this language?” It was like an invitation to have a conversation, a further conversation. “Now, let’s talk,” I’m thinking, let’s discuss it. Here I am from the nations, and I’m speaking your language, and we’re in this place where we’re foreigners. And it so shocked him he just walked away. I wonder if he thinks to himself, “Now, wait a minute, what does he have to do with me?” In other words, what do I have to do with him? I find this a lot, if I’m speaking a language, and it happens in Chinese too, if I speak their language, they’re like, “Wait a minute, you don’t look like us, you don’t think… like what’s going on?” And again, back to your issue, isn’t it not sometimes a struggle to look at the bigness of God and how big He is and who He is awakening and what He is doing.

Nehemia: Amen. Right.

Keith: So again, just back to this issue of whether it’s Egypt or we’re talking about Assyria or whatever, and you brought it up last week and I thought it was beautiful, is that the possibility that those are references to the nations. So for me, I’m always a little put off when I don’t sense this sort of connection with the nations. I want the nations to be awakened because that’s where I come from. I’m not one who can say I’m King David’s relative. I don’t get to say that like you.

Nehemia: Well, on the flip side of what you’re pointing out, I think, without pointing it out, and I can’t speak about the Chinese, I can’t speak about other people. But there is definitely a certain amount of Judeo-centrism, which is Jews were this persecuted people, Jews were this persecuted people for 2,000 years and became sort of insular. And there’s definitely something in our culture about, “Wait a minute, there’s somebody from the outside. We don’t need to deal with that.” Look, I’ve struggled with that in my own life and have come to a place where I am now, after many, many years of being on a journey that Yehovah has taken me on. But the natural instinct is, “No, get out of here this isn’t for you. This is our treasure. We’re not sharing this with you gentiles.”

Keith: Hey, you know what? Nehemia, let me tell you something else that happened, and we’re going to venture in a little bit because we have some time. You don’t want to talk about these other verses. Let me just venture into something else.

Nehemia: Well, no, there’s a lot to talk about the verses.

Keith: No, no. One thing I want to point out.

Nehemia: Go ahead.

Keith: Let me tell you what I really sensed from this guy.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: I sensed from this guy a little bit of fear. Like, we were going down this elevator, and this shocked him so much because… for those who don’t know, if you’ve never seen a picture of me, I don’t actually look like Nehemia. I actually have the real brown skin and a bald-headed brown-skinned guy amongst a bunch of Chinese. So I don’t see me very much at all. This guy happened to be of some European descent or whatever, and so he was looking at me. So there’s the black-white issue. Then there’s the language issue. And around the world right now, isn’t it fair to say that there are many Jewish people around the world that have a certain level of heightened sensitivity to what’s going on in terms of anti-Semitism, the attacks that are taking place?

Nehemia: Oh, absolutely.

Keith: So when I communicated…

Nehemia: Yes. I actually met these… Go ahead, sorry.

Keith: When I communicated with this guy, the first thing I sensed was fear. He was like, “Why are you speaking to me in my… you don’t look anything like me. Why are you speaking to me in my language?” And then he calmed down, at about floor 16, until we got to the bottom. But then he thought, “Let me get out of here, this is too weird.”

Nehemia: Wait, you were following him? You were stalking him?

Keith: I followed him. I wanted to talk, “Shalom chaver! Speak to me.”

Nehemia: Well, no. There’s definitely some truth to what you’re saying. Meaning, I think of it, I was in Nepal and I met these two Israeli girls, and they actually said to me, “Do you tell people you’re Israeli?” I’m like, “Yes. Why wouldn’t I do that?” I think their generation has been trained, like, “You don’t tell people you’re Israeli. You pretend you’re from Monaco or someplace like that, or Malta, because there’s a lot of people out there who want to hurt us.” In my generation, that definitely was not the mentality. I remember I was in Changsha in China, and I met these two Syrians from Damascus, and I told them I was Israeli, and all of a sudden they got really cold on me and really unfriendly. But that’s okay. I’m okay with that because I’m proud of being Israeli.

Keith: Amen. Well, anyways. I just think you kind of led me into this. This just happened 24 hours ago. I’ve addressed this a lot, and still, I can understand. I guess my thought was that I could understand a little bit of this sensitivity from a little bit of just an issue of being in a foreign country and the way that there are so many things that are going on internationally right around with terrorism and attacks, and that this guy clearly was…

Nehemia: I’ll tell you, I was in a place in China and there was a Belgian guy there. The minute he heard I was Israeli he got nasty; he got really nasty and showed his ignorance about international affairs. There are people who do hate, especially Europeans - not only, but especially Europeans - and obviously, Muslims, who hate Jews and hate Israel. At the same time, of course, people don’t realize this, there are actually Muslims in the Israeli army who serve and fight for their country. So everybody’s different, but I understand why some people are afraid.

Keith: Okay. Well, there we go.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: Can I can I keep reading?

Nehemia: Yes, let’s do it.

Keith: So here it says... He’s talking about them, he says, “They have repeatedly stumbled.” Are you done with your confession? Can we move on? I’m just checking.

Nehemia: Yes. Let’s move on. Let’s do it.

Keith: I want to say…

Nehemia: Let’s get to verse 18. I’ve got something to say there.

Keith: Yes, I appreciate you saying that, actually, because it really is a bit of a sensitive issue, but it’s connected. “They have repeatedly stumbled; indeed, they have fallen one against another. They have said, ‘Get up! And let us go back to our own people and our native land away from the sword of the oppressor.’ They cried there, ‘Pharaoh king of Egypt is but a big noise; He has let,’” and here comes the verse 17, “He has let the appointed time pass by!” And again, that happens to be the word, and I don’t know, again, you’re…

Nehemia: Is that the Word of the Week? That was the Word of the Week like two weeks ago, wasn’t it?

Keith: That happens to be the mo’ed. It happens to be…

Nehemia: The appointed time.

Keith: The appointed time passed by. Now, verse 18, go at it, Nehemia.

Nehemia: Yes, we’re here. I love this. So it talks about Pharaoh, King of Egypt. Yes, he’s just a bunch of noise and then he says, “Chai ani neum hamelech Yehovah Tzvaot shemo,” “As I live, saith the King, Yehovah of hosts is His name.” So here, this is pretty cool. So Yehovah is proclaiming, “As I live,” which is an oath. “As Yehovah lives,” is what we say. But He Himself doesn’t say, “As Yehovah lives” because He is Yehovah. He says, “As I live, saith the King, whose name is Yehovah of hosts,” that’s pretty cool. Then He speaks about Tavor, and all of a sudden, my ears light up and I’m starting to pay attention because here’s Tavor and Carmel. These are places I’m familiar with in Israel. And as I was reading this, I was thinking - that’s why I shared my confession - because I’m like, “Wait a minute, why do I like this verse? And the other verses that talk about Memphis, or Noph in Hebrew, why do I not care about that?” That’s what made me realize, “Oh, wait a minute, this isn’t about me; it’s not about Israel. It’s Judeo-centrism.” Yes, but here what I think is cool is, “As I live, saith the King, Yehovah of hosts is His name.” That’s pretty cool. You’ve got a king who makes a lot of noise? We’ve got the real king.

Keith: Yes. And going further, when he says that, I was going to ask a question. So in different languages, you hear this sound…

Nehemia: Which one?

Keith: He says, “chai,” “chai ani,” you know, “life.”

Nehemia: Yes, chai, life, live.

Keith: Or “As I live.”

Nehemia: Literally, yes, it’s “life I.” That’s the literal translation.

Keith: Yes, “life I.” And so that’s… again, we get into the whole issue when He does these kinds of things when He says this, when He swears, “I swear by Myself.” It’s like you can take it to the bank. Meaning that’s something that when He gets involved like that… and again, I like the fact that he did he uses the word, “Declares the King,” because what did we just talk about?

Nehemia: The king of Egypt. Here’s a real king. Now, I don’t know if you remember this, but if I’m not mistaken, I believe that we talked about this verse in the book A Prayer to Our Father: Hebrew Origins of the Lord’s Prayer. Do you remember that? We were looking for the place where Yeshua taught what’s known as the Lord’s Prayer, or the Avinu, the Our Father prayer. There were I believe six places we went to. It was quite a number of years ago. But we went to six different locations that have been identified throughout history as the place for the Sermon on the Mount, where the Lord’s Prayer was taught, where the Sermon on the Mount took place. One of the explanations or one of the traditions in the Christian world is that that took place on Mount Tavor, or Mount Tabor, and the reason is because of this verse. You look around the Galilee, as far away as the Golan Heights, and you look up and you see Mount Tavor looming among the mountains. It’s just this really prominent beautiful mountain. In Nepal, it wouldn’t even be considered a hill, but in Israel, it’s a mountain. So there are people who said, “Oh, Sermon on the Mount, we don’t know the name of the mountain? It’s got to be Tavor. It’s the mountain, right?” Based on this verse. But in fact, that’s probably not the best candidate. It’s unlikely that was the place.

Keith: Actually, I have to say, I mean I love Israel, I think it’s a beautiful place. We’re going to be going there this spring. Anyone that’s interested, I think there are a couple more spots available if anyone’s interested. This is going to be the third trip to Israel. But one of the things that really is kind of cool, as you mentioned, we looked to those six different spots, and I remember when I was actually in Israel and we were talking about the mountain. I don’t know how many different mountains I’ve been to, but other than the fact that you were driving as if it was a mountain, it didn’t look like a mountain at all.

Nehemia: Are you insulting my driving?

Keith: No, on Mount Arbel, now that felt a little bit like a mountain. But…

Nehemia: What, Tavor didn’t feel like a mountain? I think because Tavor’s so big that you gradually get up to it.

Keith: Yes, when you get to Israel…

Nehemia: Whereas Arbel is sudden.

Keith: Yes. Exactly. Like I said, it felt like a mountain when you were driving on the way down. It definitely felt like a mountain. But on the way up, it was like…

Nehemia: Again, it’s so big it’s almost like this gradual… it’s kind of like this dome-shaped mountain.

Keith: It’s exactly like a dome-shaped mountain.

Nehemia: So as you go up, you don’t really feel like, “Oh, I’m going straight up.” Where’s at Arbel, you’re literally at one point going straight up. Or straight down.

Keith: So can we keep reading here?

Nehemia: Yes. Let’s do it.

Keith: “Make your baggage ready for exile,” it says here.

Nehemia: That’s cool.

Keith: Yes. “O daughter, dwelling in Egypt, for Memphis will become a desolation. It will even be burned down and bereft of inhabitants.” And then 46:20, “Egypt is a pretty heifer, but a horsefly is coming from the north—it is coming!”

Nehemia: Now we talked about this last week, about the 40-year exile of Egypt. Look, I’m sure there are a lot of people with a lot of theories. “Yes, that took place in 542 B.C.” I’m sure there are a lot of theories like that, but the bottom line is we don’t really know. Has this even taken place yet? I mean this sounds like it’s got to be taking place in the time of Nevuchadnezzar. It’s very possible he took part of the population exile and we just don’t have all of those details. I mean that’s what the Babylonians did when they conquered a place.

Keith: They’d take people.

Nehemia: They would take people into exile. They would especially take the elite, and then they’d install their own elite. The ruling class they would take, it and they’d install their own ruling class. The lower rungs of society often just do whatever the rulers say anyway. Whoever those rulers are. So yes, that may have been something. I mean, it sounds like that had to be something at the time of Nevuchadnezzar. Maybe it’s something that’s going to happen in the future. Yes.

Keith: Okay. It says here, “Also her mercenaries in her midst are like fattened calves, for even they too have turned back and have fled away together. They did not stand their ground. For the day of their calamity has come upon them, the time of their punishment.” Again, the idea, I guess, as I’m reading through this, it’s like it gets to be these images. This is what’s going to happen. This is what it’s going to be like. This is the picture, and I think one of the things that I do appreciate about these sorts of passages is it makes me, again, try to get to be reminded of context. And here’s an example. They’re like a fattened calf. Now, I could go and do a whole thing that they’re fat and calves, and then it breaks down at some point. You know here’s the image. Let’s take that image all the way until the end. I’ve got many examples of that. Many examples from my tradition where we’ll take one image and then try to take that image to the end and then it will break down, and once it breaks down, you keep pushing it, and then someone comes along and says, “Well, that can’t really be that because of this.” And then, all of a sudden, you get caught with your back against the wall. You’re not going to make me say what that is, right? Jeremiah 46:22…

Nehemia: I actually don’t know what you’re talking about.

Keith: Good. That’s good. Let’s move on. “Its sound moves along like a serpent for they move on like an army and come to her as woodcutters with axes.” Boy.

Nehemia: You know that is really mysterious. Could you read one more verse to finish the word woodcutter image?

Keith: Yes. “‘They have cut down her forest,’ declares Yehovah. ‘Surely it will no more be found, even though they are now more numerous than locusts and are without number.’”

Nehemia: So what do you have to say about that, about the woodcutter?

Keith: You’re saying this sounds mysterious, you say?

Nehemia: It’s mysterious because there are no forests in Egypt and there never were. So what is this talking about? “They have cut down her forest”? Now, the locusts, “they are more numerous than locusts,” that may have been one of the reasons that the tradition that chose this passage said, “Okay, well this will correspond to the Torah portion because we’ve got the plague of locusts.” Maybe that’s why. I’m assuming that’s why. Because there are a lot of prophecies about Egypt. Why this one?

So first of all, there was the smiting in verse 13, which is the word for “plague,” and now, we have locusts. This is a no brainer that this has to be the section. But what are these forests they’re cutting down? There are no forests in Egypt. Egypt is historically - I’m not talking about Egypt today - but historically, Egypt was the most narrow, longest country in the world, because basically, you have a few miles on either side of the Nile River, which goes for thousands of miles. But if you go 10 miles or 15 miles away from the Nile, you’re in the middle of the desert and there’s nothing there. So you can travel a thousand miles and still be in Egypt, but you could also travel 10 miles and be in the middle of nowhere, and it’s completely desolate, historically.

So it was considered one of the longest country and narrowest country in the world, and it was pretty much this continuous population. Meaning that if you went along the Nile, every inch of the Nile, the shore there pretty much was occupied by someone. It was actually different than, for example, India, in the Indus Valley and the Euphrates Valley, where there were cities that grew up very early. Egypt was more or less this continuous population all the way from what’s today Sudan to the delta. They had cities, but also, there were people living everywhere. But where are these forests? There are no forests in Egypt.

Keith: I have no idea.

Nehemia: I have a new theory.

Keith: Your new theory?

Nehemia: I have a new teaching.

Keith: Yes.

Nehemia: I’m the only one who knows this. You’ve got to buy my book. It’s my secret. No, I’m going to share it. So what are the forests? I don’t know, but it’s possible the forests are the, what do you call that? The temples. They had these temples in Egypt, and there were these forests of stone pillars holding up the roof, holding up the top of the temple. They didn’t actually have… sometimes they would bring in - especially for the rafters - they’d bring in Cedar from Lebanon. But for the pillars to hold it up, for that they used stone, because stone was abundant; trees were very rare in Egypt. So maybe cutting down the forest is destroying the temples. It’s possible. The forest of pillars.

Keith: We’ll throw that in with the possibilities of theories.

Nehemia: Because otherwise, what’s it talking about? And of course, this opens up the possibility that Egypt here does not mean Egypt, it’s an allegory, it’s a symbol of Russia. Now, we finally have the revelation that this is going to refer to Russia in the 21st century and there are many forests in Russia. I don’t know. It could be.

Keith: So it’s interesting. This is one of those issues, too, where we have these people that are listening, and I want to say again, Nehemia, I’ve really been excited about the depth that people will go into when they are studying Scripture, and those that are listening that have their Bibles open, one or two translations, and making the comments and us interacting with those comments. There’s nothing wrong with reading ahead. If somebody is reading ahead and they find something really powerful - let’s just say that a passage like this that we’re about to get to - make a comment on our pages and we’ll see if we’re able to bring that. That’s the kind of thing that would be awesome.

But I want to ask the question in 46:24. And I’m asking this question sincerely. When you hear the words, “The daughter of Egypt has been put to shame,” what image do you have? When you hear, “the daughter of Egypt,” what does that mean to you?

Nehemia: So the image there, and we’ll often hear about the daughter of Zion, “bat tzion,” and the image there is the young women of that country. So yes, that’s what it…

Keith: That’s how you see it. So it’s saying, “The daughter of Egypt has been put to shame, given over to the power of the people…”

Nehemia: Do you want me to be explicit on a family program what it means?

Keith: No, I’m trying…

Nehemia: No. That’s what it means.

Keith: Yes.

Nehemia: I’m not going to say what it means, but it’s clear what it means. It’s talking about when enemies invade, they do what armies do and they take the daughters and they put them to shame. That’s what happens.

Keith: Yes, that’s what happens. Actually, right now, in parts of Africa, certainly we’ve seen it in other places, in Syria and Iraq, all over. This is something that’s taking place right now.

Nehemia: Yes. It’s tragic. It really is a horrible thing.

Keith: It really is, and you can really pass over something like this and not know what it’s speaking of. But you can turn on the news right now and you can hear about whether it’s the terrorists that are going in, you know, bring back our daughters, what took it with Boko Haram. It really is a devastating thing. And the testimonies of what’s happening with different religious groups all over the world right now, this verse definitely comes to mind with what’s happened.

Nehemia: Right. Maybe the most famous example in modern times is when the Soviet army conquered Berlin, that there was - and I’ll just come out and say it; if you want to mute this and send the kids out of the room, go ahead - but when the Soviet army in 1945 captured Berlin there was mass rape on an industrial scale, maybe hundreds of thousands or millions of women, and that’s what this is talking about.

And I do find it interesting, from my Judeo-centric perspective, that in the entire history of the Arab-Israeli conflict, there’s never been a documented instance where an Israeli soldier actually committed that crime. Israel is actually very fastidious, very careful about investigating so-called or even actual war crimes. For example, if a soldier steals something from a house, even in the middle of a battle, if he picks it up, puts in his pocket, and that’s reported, then he’ll get in a lot of trouble. And that’s happened, that has happened. But what it’s talking about in this verse has never been perpetrated in the history of the State of Israel by an Israeli soldier. Which is actually unprecedented in history.

Keith: I will say this. You know, you’re kind of tiptoeing around the issue, and I understood your reasoning for that. But I guess when we’re reading Scripture and you see something, “The daughter of Egypt has been put to shame,” it’s easy not to know what that is. It’s easy to just think, “Oh, that must be some language issue.” Actually, here in China they just were looking at this terrible thing that took place with the Japanese over here, and they are finally acknowledging it. And one of the things that’s really interesting is the Japanese - some of the parts of the population will acknowledge what actually happened and others won’t. But over in China now, they’re beginning to build a museum and memorials, et cetera, which is tens of thousands of people where this happened, tens of thousands of women where this happened. And so it’s one of those things that, again, where Scripture from of old can be brought to the present time and you can actually see it happening. That’s what this verse is about.

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: So verse 46:25. And let me stop, again, Nehemia. One of the things that’s really interesting, and I know this has been something that you’ve done for as long as I’ve known you. And sometimes you do it and I get frustrated because you’re, “It’s so obvious. This is obvious what this is. Clearly, this is what this is.” Like, no, that’s not clear. It’s not always clear, because people don’t always get context. And that’s one of the things about your ministry - is being able to bring language, history, and context to the most important book, certainly for those that are listening and many people around the world, the Bible being the most important book, the Hebrew Scriptures, where people don’t have access to that information, that’s one of the powers - that’s really a powerful thing about what you do. So I’m handing you an opportunity to talk about…

Nehemia: Oh, is the Ministry Minute? Okay.

Keith: You don’t have to actually say it every time you just do it. It’s just there.

Nehemia: Now, for the Ministry Minute with Nehemia Gordon. So yes, my ministry is called the Makor Hebrew Foundation. M-A-K-O-R. Makor is the source of the water, that’s from the verse in Jeremiah that Yehovah is the source of the living water. My website is nehemiaswall.com.

So one of the things I’m doing in the upcoming months is going to be working on the Aviv Search. The Aviv Search is when we go to Israel and we scour the land looking for the first ripening barley, first fields of Aviv barley, and the first new moon after the Aviv barley, that’s when the year begins. I’ll be talking a little bit more about that as time goes by. It’s really interesting, because there are these organizations in Israel, a specific organization, the Israeli New Moon Society, which is a Rabbinical organization, and they actually observe new moons every month. But they don’t use those new moons for observing the feast. They say this is practice and preparation for when the Messiah comes. My approach as a Karaite Jew is that when the Messiah comes, I want to be able to tell him I was doing the best that I could while I was waiting for you. So for me, when I do this, this isn’t practice, this is real life, as real as life gets.

One of the other things going on of my ministry is that I’ll be traveling around speaking in the next few months, and I want to invite people to invite me. People write to me all the time and say, “How can we come and hear you,” or,“how can we get you to come to our town to speak?” Contact me. Write to me through nehemiaswall.com and we’ll set something up. I’ll do venues big and small. I really just want to share the Word of God.

And one last thing. Or two last things. So, iTunes… come to iTunes and subscribe to Nehemia’s Wall, the podcast, and give us ratings and reviews. It helps us get the information in front of people. And I’m really excited, because… we’re pre-recording this obviously, and I just had this, and I shared about this before, I think, this teaching on Hanukkah that I put out as kind of a thank you for my Support Team. We had a whole bunch of people call up and say they want to join the Support Team, and they contacted Dev, who runs the ministry. She’ll talk to the people and say, “So what’s your background? Where are you coming from? What are you now?” And sometimes people don’t want to answer, and that’s fine. But the people who do answer, it’s really interesting - over the last couple of weeks, the people who have contacted us, almost all of them are Christians, which I find really exciting. Because in the past we’ve had lots of Jews and lots of Messianics, but these are people who are Christians who are discovering the Hebrew roots of their faith, who want to learn more about it. So I’m really encouraged by that - that this message is really going forward and spreading throughout the world.

Keith: Wonderful. Well, one of the things that’s happening for me, again, reading this passage, and talking about the nations - I actually happen to be amongst the nations right now, literally. And one of the things that is really interesting about being here at BFA International is we launched our site in China two years ago, and we launched the website and we added the word “International” because we didn’t want to just have it be there because it’s a cool thing. We actually wanted to make an impact amongst the nations. We’re seeing right now people from different parts of the world that are clicking into bfainternational.com and they’re really interacting with us.

In fact, at the end of this last calendar year, those that are listening today will be able to see a report that we’re doing for the end of the year, and we’ll make that available on the website in an electronic version. It’s called, “It’s Happening” and what’s happening? Inspiring people around the world to build a biblical foundation for their faith. And we’re seeing this, and one of the things that’s really interesting is you can track where traffic is coming from in different nations, and that’s probably the thing that probably gets me the most jazzed is to see 15 people from a small country in Africa or 25 people in some aspect… a place in the Philippines, or 50 people in parts of Europe, or 100 people or 2000 people. That’s, again, where we’ve really been working hard to get a message around the world to the nations.

And so for me, right now, I’m over here in the most populous city - 26 million people - and I’m around them all the time, the majority of them happen to be of Chinese descent, but I run into people from different parts of the world who are here. It really is interesting, the interaction, whether it’s speaking language or sharing a little bit of God’s time, a little bit of His Torah, a little of His name. It really is happening.

So I want to invite people to continue to pray for that mission and to actually build their faith now. You can go to the website and you can interact with us. Nehemia’s talking about the Aviv Search, and one of the things that was such a blessing is he let us bring a camera on to see how he does what he does. So for those who want to support what he’s doing, you can actually see what it is, and it’s a powerful example of bringing the significance of God’s time to our present day.

So you can go to bfainternational.com. You can become a free member and see everything. You can become a part of the Premium Content Library where you can have a seven-day free trial, see it all for yourself, and cancel if you don’t like it. But many people are signing up and they’re liking it, and it really is allowing us to reach more and more people around the world, and inspiring people around the world to build a biblical foundation for their faith. So that is my Ministry Minute, and we can move on because we’ve got a couple more verses where you’re going to get to take this thing and run with it. Are you ready?

Nehemia: Let’s do it.

Keith: 46:25. “Yehovah of hosts,” it says here. “Yehovah Tzevaot, the God of Israel, says, ‘Behold, I am going to punish Amon of Thebes, and Pharaoh of Egypt along with her gods and her kings, even Pharaoh and those who trust in him.’” Really. Wow. So “the gods and the kings”? I mean wow.

Nehemia: Well, that’s something we talked about, I think in the Original Torah Pearls, that the plagues of Egypt, the last plague was slaughtering a sheep and they had this divine lamb that they worshiped. Then Amon here is mentioned by name, who is one of the Egyptian gods. God is “going to carry out judgment against,” is the phrase in the Torah. “Carry out judgment against the gods of Egypt.” So they worshiped these living things and these living things are going to be killed by Yehovah. He’s going to show them their gods are powerless, and not only living things, some of their gods are statues and idols and those, too, will be destroyed.

I’m going to go out on a limb here, and you’re not going to like this because I’m going to jump to Jeremiah 10. And I’m doing that because today, in Seattle, Washington, where I am at the moment at my sister’s house, it is Christmas Day, and Jeremiah 10 is a famous verse that’s quoted by many people who believe it’s talking about Christmas and about the Christmas tree. Can I talk about this? I know it’s completely off topic.

Keith: You can. It’s Christmas Day, you certainly can, Jeremiah whatever you like.

Nehemia: Beseder. This is your Methodist Christmas gift for me to talk about Jeremiah 10. So here I’m going to read from the JPS. It says, “Hear the word,” this is Jeremiah 10:1. “Hear the word which Yehovah has spoken to you, O House of Israel! Thus said Yehovah: ‘Do not learn to go the way of the nations, and do not be dismayed by portents in the sky; Let the nations be dismayed by them!’” It’s talking about astrology. “For the laws of the nations are delusions: For it is the work of a craftsman’s hands. He cut down a tree in the forest with an ax,” and people say, there it is, it’s a Christmas tree, he cut down the forest with the ax. “He adorns it with silver and gold,” called tinsel in English. “He fastens it with nails and hammer so that it does not totter. They are like a scarecrow in a cucumber patch, they cannot speak. They have to be carried, for they cannot walk.” Well, that’s not really a Christmas tree. Who carries a Christmas tree, and why would you say a Christmas tree can’t speak? That’s a strange thing to say.

It goes on, it says, “Be not afraid of them, for they can do no harm; Nor is it in them to do any good.” I think the context here is really clear - that this is not talking about a Christmas tree, which maybe has another biblical problem - the whole issue of the asherah tree. But what this is talking about is an idol or a statue, and that’s why it has nails to hold it from stumbling, and it has a mouth but it can’t speak. This is the theme throughout the Tanakh. It has a mouth but it can’t speak; it has legs but it can’t walk. Right?

And so people would see these statues and they’d be like, “Oh, wow. Even though we don’t worship that god, that has power, that thing.” Here, Jeremiah’s saying it has no power. Don’t be afraid of it. It says, “O Yehovah, there is none like You! You are great and Your name is great in power.” Amen. That’s Jeremiah 10:6, I love that verse. “Who would not revere You, O King of the nations?” That’s pretty cool because we hear about the king of Israel, we just read that in our verse, and here Yehovah is called “melech hagoyim,” the king of the nations. “For that is Your due, since among all the wise of the nations and among all their royalty there is none like You. But they are both dull and foolish; their doctrine is but delusion; it is a piece of wood,” Now we’re talking about the statue again. “It’s a piece of wood,” right?

So verse 9. I’m almost done. “Silver beaten flat, that is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of a craftsman and the goldsmith’s hands; their clothing is blue and purple,” blue and purple? That’s not a Christmas tree. That’s actually the statues that were donned in blue and purple, which was the royal garments. “All of them are the work of skilled men. But Yehovah is truly God: He is a living God,” not like the statues, “The everlasting King. At His wrath, the earth quakes, and nations cannot endure His rage.”

So I’m not saying that I’m in favor of Christmas trees. I’m Jewish, I’ve never had a Christmas tree in my life. The point is, though, let’s understand what the verse actually means.

Keith: Absolutely.

Nehemia: It’s talking about idols. The idols are fastened with nails to keep them from tottering over, right? Because their feet are useless. It’s not a Christmas tree. It’s an idol that looks like a human but actually can’t speak or walk and can’t even stand by itself. It needs to be carried. The point of this prophecy is, don’t worship the idols, don’t believe in them, don’t even think they have any power. Yehovah is the only one with power. He’s not just the God of Israel, He’s the king of all the nations.

Keith: Amen. You know it’s interesting, because of your background you probably don’t realize the level of worship that some people do put into those trees.

Nehemia: Oh, and I’m not saying Christmas trees are okay.

Keith: Let me finish. I’m on my…

Nehemia: Beseder. Go ahead.

Keith: I’m on my box.

Nehemia: Yes, go on your soapbox.

Keith: So if you go to some groups of people, some organizations, some families, I mean where that tree, literally, I mean it literally becomes as if it’s an idol. To the point that there’s a certain level - and I think some people that are listening will understand this - that there’s a certain level of worship that takes place with the trees. We don’t have to go into the ancient issues of the asherah or anything like that. There are some people that even today, when you talk about the Christmas tree, I mean you don’t touch the tree, you don’t…

Nehemia: Really? Because I’ve never heard that in my life. Seriously?

Keith: You have no idea how far it goes, and I think some that are listening would understand that one of the reasons that there is sometimes a parallel isn’t that what Jeremiah’s talking about - I mean it’s a convenient parallel as far as fastening and all of that - but when some people put that tree up, it’s as if they’re putting up their false god. It’s as if they’re putting up their place of worship. It becomes the center of attention from the time that it’s up until the time that it’s down; how it’s treated; who can touch it; what you put on it; how it’s given prominence in its place.

So I do think that if you go a little further - and I appreciate the fact that you brought that up - if you go a little further in terms of things that were done with trees, we certainly don’t have to go to Jeremiah 10 for that. We can go to the Sidonians and many others that are in Scripture that would use… what they did with trees.

But I think the thing that becomes interesting for us today, at least in our society, I want to give credit to those people who in their hearts and in their minds they’ve come to a place to say, “You know what? This became prominent; this became bigger than God.” And that’s really at this time of year, the thing that concerns me as I’m over here in this part of the world, like I said last week, there is no religious aspect to Christmas, but you know what they talk about on the news, Nehemia?

Nehemia: What do they talk about?

Keith: They talk about the god of economy. They talk about Christmas being a money…

Nehemia: This is the Chinese news?

Keith: In the Chinese news. When they talk about Christmas, they talk about, the first thing, money. The second thing…

Nehemia: That’s true, for the Chinese it’s all about money. That’s absolutely true.

Keith: It’s all about money. Now guess what, and I’m going to give you a secret, and we’ll get off this, for the people over in the United States, those that love to put up those trees and do that. I’m not talking about those families that get together, but those organizations, it’s also about money. I mean, you talk about the Christmas season and the shopping season and how it’s expensive - I mean, it’s about the god of money if I’ve ever seen it. So to me, I think that it’s pretty clear that we have a real issue in terms of what becomes the focus. Anything that becomes the focus that is not Him, or that takes the place of Him, and man, I have seen this in ways that are shocking, and it’s spreading.

I’ve got to leave you with one other thing about this. In China, the older people in China, they’re like, “What are you doing celebrating Christmas? The New Year is coming. The Chinese New Year’s coming.” But the young people are saying, “Hey, we think there’s something kind of cool to this. We get to shop.” So on Christmas Eve, when the sun sets, after work, they hit the streets, and they’re doing the Black Friday thing with the money. And then in their minds, they’re like, “Well, that’s what this is all about.”

And I’m actually concerned for them about that, because it can morph, and when it morphs it becomes something that attempts to take the place - and I’m not talking about here, I’m talking more in the United States - take the place of God, and they sort of wash it over with a little singing and a little “Jesus is the reason for the season” when, in fact, it really is becoming about money. So I guess I’m going about that.

Nehemia: So let me wrap up my part of it, which is Deuteronomy 16:21, “Thou shalt not plant…” And this is the King James. It says, “Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee.” What it actually says in Hebrew is, “You shall not plant in asherah, any tree next to the altar of Yehovah your God.” Asherah was the sacred tree. It was a tree that was worshipped. It was a tree that was holy. Sometimes they didn’t actually have a literal tree, sometimes it was just a pole, because trees aren’t very abundant in Israel. So they would take the pole of a tree that had literally been cut down, and they would bring it next to the altar, and so definitely this idea of venerating trees is completely forbidden by the Torah.

Keith: Oh, my goodness.

Nehemia: Here is where I want to agree with you, but make a point. So here I wrote down your exact words - you said the Christmas tree has, quote, “literally become as if it’s an idol.” Where I want to agree with you is that that may be true, but first, we have to understand what an idol is, and then we can say that it has become “as if” it’s an idol.

Keith: Right.

Nehemia: So first, we need to understand the literal meaning of Jeremiah 10, and then, we can say this is literally talking about a statue, an idol that’s paraded around in the streets, that’s wrapped in gold and silver, that’s given a stand so it can stand up. And then say that’s really like the Christmas tree. I have no problem with somebody who wants to say that.

Keith: Look, I’ve got an ax, Nehemia…

Nehemia: Where I have a problem is somebody who says Jeremiah foretold the future that there would be Christmas trees. Give me a break.

Keith: No, no. He’s doesn’t have to do that. I’ve got an ax, and I’m smashing and cutting down trees, just call me the smasher and the cutter down guy. That’s what I do.

Nehemia: You’re Gideon, okay.

Keith: So now, can we get to the big verse here? I mean come on, are we…?

Nehemia: Let’s do it. Yes

Keith: Okay. “I shall give them over to the power of those who are seeking their lives, even into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and into the hand of his officers.” Boy, did that not happen. “Afterwards, however, it will be inhabited as in the days of old,” declares Yehovah.” Then we get to this, “but.” It says, at least in English…

Nehemia: This is the tie-in. This is how it’s relevant for me.

Keith: Yes, here we go.

Nehemia: Now, all of a sudden, I woke up.

Keith: Okay. Now, here we go. Verse 27, we want to give you this, “But as for you,” Nehemia?

Nehemia: Yes.

Keith: Tell us how this affects you here.

Nehemia: It says, “And you, al tira avdi Yaakov,” “and you, do not fear, my servant Jacob,” “ve’al techat Israel,” “and do not be afraid, Israel.” “Ki hineni moshi’achah mirachok,” “for I am your Savior,” we had that word moshia, “from afar, and your seed from the land of their captivity; And Jacob will return and it shall be of a shakat vesha’anan ve’ein machrid.” I love that. “And he will be,” literally, “quiet and tranquil and none shall make him afraid.”

Actually, in the NASB it has, “no one making him tremble.” That’s a really good translation. In the JPS it’s, “none to trouble him,” which isn’t actually what it says. In the King James - that’s our Word of the Week, by the way - the King James has, “none shall make him afraid.” So I want to talk about that word “afraid,” which actually does mean to tremble. The word is machrid.

Keith: Machrid.

Nehemia: Mem, chet, resh, yud, dalet. Every word in Hebrew has a three-letter root. The three-letter root of this word, it’s very clear, it’s chet, resh, dalet, which means, “to shake,” literally, “to shake in fear.” Although, it could also be “shaking in awe.” For example, there’s a group of people in Israel today, which we call in English, ultra-Orthodox Jews; in Hebrew, they’re called Charedim, which means “the Shakers” because they claim that they tremble and shake in the presence of God - it’s arguable whether they really do that - but that’s the word chared, which means to tremble.

And I have a story I want to relate about my little nephew, Ehud, who, at the time was five years old, this past summer in Israel during the time of the war in Gaza. I’m going to qualify that and say the summer 2014 war because I’m sure people listening to this, sadly, in the future will say, “The war in Gaza, which one? There have been 10 since you’ve spoken.” I’m sad to say that’s probably the reality.

But I spoke with him on the phone, and he lives out very far from Gaza. He lives in the desert, about 15 minutes outside of Jerusalem. You’ve been to his house, actually, my older sister’s house. And little Ehud was telling me about how when the air raid sirens sounded for the first time, he was terrified, and he says, “I jumped on the ground,” and he says, “I was shaking. I was trembling.” And he used this word. In modern Hebrew, that’s come to have the meaning also of anxiety. So this poor little five-year-old, he’s just playing with a ball…

Keith: Tell us how he said it, Nehemia.

Nehemia: Yes, he was saying, “Haya li charadah, ra’adeti.” He used a couple of phrases there, which mean to shake. So there’s this image when you’re really afraid, you shake; you tremble. It’s saying, “Israel will have a time of peace, and in that time of peace, when that comes, in the end, none will make you afraid. None will make you tremble. That will not happen. There’ll be no more terror to make you afraid.”

Keith: Amen.

Nehemia: He goes on and He says, “‘And you do not fear, My servant Jacob,’ says Yehovah. ‘For I am with you,’” and that’s His theme throughout the Tanakh, “I am with you.” “For I will, ki e’aseh khala bechol hagoyim.” “For I will…” that’s difficult to translate. Basically, “I will perform complete destruction amongst all the nations where I cast you out there. But with you, I will not completely destroy.” And it says, “veyesarticha lamishpat,” that’s interesting. Here in the King James, it says, “But I will correct thee in measure.” Which I have no idea what that means in English. But in Hebrew, what it says is, “I’m going to,” how do you translate this word? “I will…” I know the translation, but I don’t want to use it. “I will rebuke you with judgment.” In other words, there’s going to be some kind of punishment. There’s going to be some kind of pain. And the word there can imply… well, let me read you a verse.

Let’s see. So Leviticus 26:18, “And if you will be…” let’s see, sorry, let me read a different translation. “And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.” And the word “punish” there is the same word, “yasar,” so it’s this word that means punishing and “correction” it’s sometimes translated. It’s really, being beaten with a stick. That’s why I didn’t want to say, but I’ll say it. He’s going to beat us with a stick for judgment. Okay? “And you will not go wholly unpunished,” “venakeh lo enakechah.” You will not be completely cleared. You will not be completely made clean.

So first, there is going to be this judgment, but I won’t completely destroy you the way I’m going to completely destroy some of those nations that I’ve cast you into that harmed you. You’ll get punished, but it won’t be complete, and then there’ll be peace, and at that peace, then at that time there’ll be tranquility and none shall make you afraid.

Keith: Wow. Well, I will tell you, even though we’re at the end of our deal here, Nehemia, I’m still three verses back. I’m frustrated.

Nehemia: Are you really? Can you talk about those three verses back?

Keith: No, no. I’m upset.

Nehemia: Do it!

Keith: No. I’m upset. I’m at the end here, and I’m going to make a decision here. For everyone that’s listening right now, normally we don’t do this, but I’m going to do it because Nehemia has thrown down the challenge.

Nehemia: What’s that?

Keith: I cannot believe he brought this Jeremiah 10 thing. You know what you’ve done, Nehemia.

Nehemia: I actually don’t know what I’ve done. It’s Christmas, so I talked about the Christmas issue.

Keith: No, I’m trembling right now, I’m frustrated. So folks, here’s what I’m going to do. Up until the date of this weekend, which is January 24th, we’re going to keep the Christmas special up until this weekend is over. Free. No registration. All you do is go through the Time Door and you’re going to go through the Time Door on the bfainternational.com page, and you don’t have to do anything. You don’t have to register. You don’t have to do anything, just because of Nehemia talking about the tree. I’m going to keep this up…

Nehemia: Wait, do you talk about this verse in your video? Is that what you…?

Keith: No. I’m going to keep this up until the 24th and let people watch it and make their own response because I’m really struggling with this whole Christmas thing. I’ve been struggling for a long time with it. But I’m mostly struggling because of the level of honest… how can I put this? It feels like worship. It’s like worship that people…

Nehemia: Of the tree?

Keith: Not just the tree. Everything about it. You know, the flute, the zither, and the lyre. They bring it up and say, “Okay, everyone, sing together.” And now, everyone is singing and doing… I think the thing that just frustrates me, and the reason why I just have to tell you, Nehemia. I’m over here in China. I can put it in a different category here because over here it’s not religious to them.

Nehemia: Oh, there’s no shame in China. It’s about money. They’ll tell you that. They’re not ashamed to say that.

Keith: It’s about money. But in the United States what I struggle with is that they make it the smells and everyone talks about, “Oh, I feel spiritual now.” What are you talking about? I mean… Look, we have to end the recording here. I’m going to keep it up until the 25th until people have gotten through this. I’m upset.

Nehemia: January 25th.

Keith: And after that, we’ll put it away.

Nehemia: Not, December 25th. It’s December 25th today.

Keith: Next week we’ll see if we can get out. But you really touched a nerve here, and so I’ve got to wrap up my end of Prophet Pearls. I’m so glad that people listen. I’m especially glad for your confession, Nehemia, but you touched a nerve.

Nehemia: Now, I want to bring this for those… a lot of people will hear, “Keith Johnson, he’s the Methodist pastor.” So can you confess? Give a confession now? Can I pry a confession out of you? So, Methodist pastors, they celebrate Christmas, is that right? I don’t know. Is that true generally?

Keith: What do you mean?

Nehemia: I don’t know. I have no idea. I’m asking a question. Yes or no?

Keith: It’s the biggest time of the year. Are you kidding me?

Nehemia: So they do celebrate Christmas. Okay.

Keith: It’s the biggest time of the year.

Nehemia: So you, as a Methodist pastor, do you celebrate Christmas?

Keith: Absolutely not.

Nehemia: Okay. That’s what I wanted to know.

Keith: No, no. And let me tell you something…

Nehemia: So you’re telling me on Christmas Eve, you don’t have a Christmas ham next to your tree and open the presents?

Keith: Well, let me tell you something…

Nehemia: What kind of Methodist pastor are you?

Keith: No, no. No, there’s none of that at all. This guy writes this thing - and now, can I just bring… we’ve got one more minute.

Nehemia: Yes. We do.

Keith: This guy goes to Biblical Foundations’ Facebook page. And he writes these words. Can I just tell you what he wrote?

Nehemia: Sure; is this part of your Ministry Minute? Go ahead

Keith: He says, “It always amazes me that Keith, a biblical neophyte, has thousands of dollars thrown at him because he isn’t a threat to Christianity like First Fruits of Zion. While Keith blunders into answers, FFOZ researches the Bible and Rabbinic commentary to prove that Jesus is Lord of the Jews and Gentiles and that Messianic Judaism, what Jesus will preach when he returns. Because Keith worships on Sunday and doesn’t keep Torah, he is of no threat. Thus he gets to say, “Show me the money,” and they give it to him.” This is written on the BFA.

Nehemia: Wait.

Keith: Look, Nehemia.

Nehemia: So, is it true? Do you worship on Sunday? And what was the other thing?

Keith: You touched a nerve. No, I don’t worship on Sunday. No. I believe the Torah is good for us today. I am not a person who gives one inkling of thought to spend my time finding out about Rabbinic commentary. I mean he’s talking about what I do. And so here are these assumptions, and so I’ve done this thing for a while, you’ve touched a nerve. It’s this time of year. Now it’s January that people are listening. I would just challenge people to find out for themselves based on what we teach, what we present, what you see, and quit making assumptions and just get it for yourself.

What I’ve always liked about you, Nehemia, you can stand up and say, “I’m a Karaite Jew and I don’t believe…” Well, as soon as I say I’m a Methodist pastor, which I am, officially, until they kick me out. There are all sorts of assumptions. So what I love about our site is it gives a chance for people to see for themselves, instead of a guy like this guy making assumptions. He says, “Show me the money.” “Show me the money. Where is it? I can’t find it.” You’re amazing to hang in there with me, Nehemia. You gave me an extra minute, so if you got anything you’d like to say to end this, I certainly would like to tip my hand to you. But I think you really touched a nerve this time.

Nehemia: Yes and I opened up the episode with my introduction. So I think you need a closing prayer…

Keith: Oh boy. Conviction. Yes, I will close with a prayer. But I do appreciate this. Father, I want to thank You for an opportunity to learn what You love, and to learn what You hate, and to apply it into our lives. This is something that we do when we’re confronted with the Word of God, and it’s just an amazing opportunity. For those that are listening, I pray that they would not take this as just a simple program that they’re listening to, but an invitation to open the Scriptures and to interact with them and to find the pearls that are there that You have made for us and given to us. In the meantime, I pray for a heart of peace, and help us to keep a perspective for the world, as is Your perspective, that You would touch the nations and we’d be a light to the nations. And now, just for this chance to be in this part of the world, and Nehemia where he is, and for the technology to work. We want to thank You and pray that You’ll continue to keep Your hand upon us as we continue to do this important aspect of searching the Scriptures to see exactly what they mean for us today. In Your name we pray and we say together, Amen.

Nehemia: Amen.

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  • donald murphy says:

    It is to bad that Keith and Jono would drop their christian leanings.

  • Tracy says:

    Hmmmmm…..seems to sound a lot like a Christmas tree. Come on!

  • shell says:

    (Keith, those last few minutes, you were *on fire*, and i love it! 😁) Jeremiah being a prophet to the nations is really cool. Theres some verses i wanted to share that i kinda thought show previous contact with babylon:

    Jer 39: v11. Now Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon gave charge concerning Jeremiah to Nebuzar-adan the captain of the guard, saying
    v12. Take him, and look well to him, and do him no harm; but do unto him even as he shall say unto thee.
    v14. …they sent, and took Jeremiah out of the court of the prison, and committed him unto Gedaliah … that he should carry him home: so he dwelt among the people.

    :Like, nebuchadrezzar is destroying the place, and taking the people captive, and then says “captain, go get jeremiah”. It comes across to me as a top priority of the king and princes of babylon.

    The next ones, nebuzar-aden is keen to even Gods plan and judgment, presumably because he heard it already before from jeremiah, and in verses 5 and 6 he shows so much care for jeremiah, its kinda touching and i think he was probably hoping jeremiah would come back with him:

    Jer 40: v2. And the captain of the guard took Jeremiah, and said unto him, The LORD thy God hath pronounced this evil upon this place.
    v3. Now the LORD hath brought [it,] and done according as he hath said: because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed his voice, therefore this thing is come upon you.
    v4. And now, behold, I loose thee this day from the chains which [were] upon thine hand. If it seem good unto thee to come with me into Babylon, come; and I will look well unto thee: but if it seem ill unto thee to come with me into Babylon, forbear: behold, all the land [is] before thee: whither it seemeth good and convenient for thee to go, thither go
    v5. Now while he was not yet gone back, [he said,] Go back also to Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan, whom the king of Babylon hath made governor over the cities of Judah, and dwell with him among the people: or go wheresoever it seemeth convenient unto thee to go. So the captain of the guard gave him victuals and a reward, and let him go.

  • Herrera Yvonne says:

    I love listening to you both interact, brightens my day. Also I think many Christian’s feel about the O. T. The way Nehemiah confessed hearing about Egypt. “Okay that doesn’t concern me- let’s move on to Matthew and I’ll pay attention again!” And most don’t even realize they are in that spot.

  • donald murphy says:

    trees and idols have a dual meanings as in Jer 10.

  • donald murphy says:

    jc never existed people.

  • conrad says:

    Why are some people soo atache to created things moor then the Creator

  • Joe Montiel says:

    I’m with you Keith, the Christmas holiday is definitely a season of worshipping all the little Christmas details such as trees, mistletoe, cards, pictures, parties, etc. It goes on and on… when I used to celebrate Christmas I used to sing “o Christmas tree” like any other gospel song and never thought of it any different. All along I was praising that tree and not YeHoVaH. Many other traditions I did and thank God my eyes are open to love God’s Word even if it means changing turning my life around in the right direction. God bless brother!
    Ps..love you Nehemia! I love all your points. This was a great Prophet pearls!

  • Donald Murphy says:

    the hated xmas tree is perfectly described in Jer 1:10. they didn’t call is a xmas tree, but that is what it has become.

  • Nette says:

    Money is the focus for almost everyone. Look at how many crimes are concerned because of money. There are a lot of people who are very wealthy who are as stingy as stingy can be. There are a lot of people who are not wealthy but they are as stingy as can be.

  • Nehemia, you rejoice over the increasing interest of Christians in your ministry, as well you should. Prophecies abound that the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel will return to the Covenant and to the Land. Those Lost Ten Tribes of Israel are only lost in Christianity, practicing paganism picked up from the Middle East through the British Isles, wherever the Roman Empire ruled. Constantine made The Roman Catholic Church the state religion, also ruled that Sunday was the Sabbath.

  • Jewel Meadows says:

    As trees stand for men in some places maybe the killing of men.

    • Jewel Meadows says:

      I came out of Assemblies of God but studied many different religions. Yehovah graciously brought me to truth over many years. He kept me alive during 3 years of total rebellion in which I was strung out on cocaine. Why would anyone want to continue to celebrate with the traditions of men which have been associated with pagan worship when Yehovah plainly say Flee the appearance of evil. When we truly fall in love with Him we gladly lay aside these traditions. I have not yet learned Yehovahs feasts but have absolutely no desire to be involved any longer in any traditional holidays-days. I will do no holidays until I learn His Holy Days. I am so grateful for His mercy upon me.

  • Stephanie Shiflet says:

    All this laughter is contagious! Thanks! On another note, there are many issues connected to the history of Christ-Mass and all it’s attributes that go against YaHoVah’s commandments. Instead of making points I implore you to: Ask in sincere prayer to have the shells removed from your eyes in order to see HIS spiritual things, to open your ears to hear HIS spiritual things and to give your heart an understanding of HIS spiritual things. Then ask Him to reveal the Truth to you about what knowledge you seek. Then, do your own research into the History of Christ-Mass and then take each aspect of it and ask yourself; “Is this honoring or dishonoring YeHoVah? Does this go against the commandments or any of the scriptures in the entire Torah (Old and New Testament) cover to cover? YeHoVah is always faithful in answering what we diligently seek after. Shalom be with you.

  • John McGough says:

    Maybe since they are likening the people to locusts the Forest is symbolic for their homes. Now they are locusts looking for a new home as they recruit men through battle.

  • Sheila Price says:

    As I listen to Nehemia and Keith speak of the nations… and the differences… language, color, etc… I couldn’t help but think that when it is all said and done, In the beginning…all nations, all peoples come out of the genes of Adam and Eve. We all go back to the first two people on earth… and in the end… we will all be ONE again, possibly with the same differences we have now… but ONE in spirit IN Yehovah! No more fear, as the man in the elevator with Keith, or frustration of ‘it’s not about Israel so it doesn’t pertain to me… or anything else that might cause division… I rejoice in the Day we WILL all be ONE people as Yehovah is ONE God…

  • suzanholland says:

    but if prophecies to Egypt have “dual fulfillment,” and an End Times fulfillment for a “spiritual Egypt,” then this DOES become more “relevant” I would think…

  • In regard to the Haredim, they’re basically “shakers” in English; in the state of Maine where I was born, there was a Christian sect actually called “Shakers”, founded in the 18th century, which were named for their pronounced shaking during worship. I speak of them in the past tense, because their doctrine doesn’t permit them to marry. As of 2012, there were three members left in Sabbathday Lake, Maine.

  • The whole “christmas is pagan” argument is ridiculous. YHVH used a tree, THAT HE CREATED, as an image of eternal life before man ever used it for any purpose. Whether a pagan has decided to use a tree for his purposes has absolutely no impact on the story found in Genesis and in Revelation about the TREE.
    In fact, that tree has beautiful boughs and fruit that YHVH instructed to be used FOR DECORATION in the sukkah as well, the almond tree is a blueprint for the menorah and pomegranite trees carved in the temple.
    It is absurd to think that if man uses a tree for decor, that he is bowing down or worshipping that tree any more than a Remington bronze statue is worshipping a cow or a horse or a bull.
    I hope we all realize that just after the golden cow was fashioned to worship, YHVH instructed 12 of them to be built for the bronze laver.
    Come on people……pagans cannot defile YHVH’s creation!

  • Isn’t this “egypt” a metaphorical egypt….iow, those who came out of egypt? Egypt itself, like you said, had no forest. Neither is there a conquering people of the north. North of egypt is the Mediterranean Sea.
    Couldn’t this passage be a warning to Israel who longs to return to Egypt? They are called “daughter of Egypt” and verse16 says that the people say, “let us go back”. It just seems that if Jeremiah is prophesying in Israel, is he then instructed to go to Egypt to deliver this word TO THEM or is he delivering the word to Israel? Did Nebuchadnezzer invade and conquer and take literal Egypt into exile or did he do this to Israel? Will it be literal Egypt that is saved from this exile or is it Israel? Seems to me the subject matter being warned is Israel, although called “egypt” because of their idol worship. IN fact verse 11 tells us who he is talking to and it is the region of Gilead…..

  • Janice says:

    To tell Christians that Christmas trees are idol worship; automatically puts the on the defensive, and a good meaningful discussion can not arise.

  • Janice says:

    Your can go google the origins of Christmas Trees to decide on your own. Many people say well I have Jesus in my heart and don’t think of the Tree as an item of worship. Worship is that which we hold high value to, especially in a Kingdom connotation. Chrismas Trees are well rooted for generations of “family time” and it’s very difficult to see the truth. And like Eve, we look at the tree as it is good for the eyes, it has a pleasant smell; so her fault was making decision with her senses; not with HaShem’s truth. I know some people walking in Torah who can go kosher easier than give up the Tree. It is by size and decorative the focus of evry family, while they may have a small manger scene. .Decorations are often passed down from generation to generation. It evolves much of our time, and dollars. It is a highly emotionally charged discussion; and best not to try and convience people especially at Christmas time; when the influence is all around us; we are saturated in all the hoopla. When I stopped the whole Christmas practices, I gain great peace, shalom in the home. No stress over gifts, shopping, traffic, rushing around inviting guests having parties, etc. I repented ot my son for lying to him about Santa, tooth faires and Easter Bunnies. Some people say it’s just a fun game not a lie = really??? Not a lie. The more lies we make excess for the less we recognize truth. We should not condemn the use of such by other people, We are only responsible to HaShem for what we do. HaShem gave us His Kingdom culture, we are not to adapt to anyother culture or practices.
    By the way there are only 3 times birthdays are celebrated in the bible and those were of tyrants, Pharough, Herod and one other I forget. The Jewish Jesus, and His family did not have birthday celebrations; they had other more meaningful customs for children that matched their mental and emotional growth. We can show through the NT and TaNaK when Jesus was born, and it turn out a Sukkot, a time we remember when G-d dwelt among us in the wilderness, and Yeshua’s birth is His dwelling among us in flesh and in our midst. Sukkot is known as the Time of our Joy! Joy to the World!
    Shlaom Chavrim!

  • Gregg W says:

    Really enjoyed this but the whole xmas thing caught me. I know Nehemia you haven’t had to deal with the tree and all the trappings in your life. But what Keith said is true – the devotion people have for the tree. Whenever someone who’s a Christian tells family or friends that they won’t be celebrating xmas or putting up a tree —-Oh my God!!!! You would think they murdered their mother. It doesn’t have to be people in your own house, just family who live miles away they are OFFENDED for some strange reason. There really is something to the “Spirit” of xmas. I think the enemy has just over time clouded our eyes and people blindly set up these trees and decorate them and all, but they have no idea why?? It is interesting how many parts of the passage you quote are things that people do with their trees. I get it that that was not the main point the prophet was making, but I wonder if Yehovah worded it the way He did so it would convict many of us in later years???

    Either way, thanks for sharing guys! Shalom.

  • tsephanyah says:

    Nehemia shalom my name is tsephanyah.i was listening to your program and for most things I do support,but I have an issue and the issue is I have a friend believing he should watch the moon to determine the Shabbat.is there any stronger material I could help him out with?

    • Stephen says:

      The 6000 years (or days) have passed and we are now IN the shabbat. “A thousand years are as a day”. As with the Jewish Age there was a harvest period that ushered in the Gospel Age. We are now in the harvest of the Messianic Age. So technically every day is a Shabbat. The 7000th year. What happened in 7 days? The reason we look back is to look forward.

  • In a Wiki article citing the following source, Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt: Elgood, Percival George. 1951. Later Dynasties of Egypt. Oxford: Basil Blackwell, p. 106.

  • Janice says:

    When in doubt – throw it out – Xmas Tree that is.

  • MaryAnne says:

    Nehemiah, just a little note.. funny how you mentioned Christians not wanting to hear about “where’s Jesus” in regard to that “ingathering”, and you were the SAME way when you spoke of Egypt at 15:50 & 20:10 (still love you tho 😉

  • kaylened says:

    Loved hearing what you said about the Christmas tree Keith 🙂

    To the Tune of “Deck the Halls”

    Deck the halls with boughs of holly,

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    wrap it all up with a Christian bow.

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    Does it all ever make you wonder,

    fa la la la la la, la la la

    why do we decorate trees and wreaths?

    fa la la la la la, la la la

    Oh I grew up adoring Santa,

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    praying that I’d been good enough,

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    to receive gifts beneath our tree.

    fa la la la la la, la la la

    So when did this become okay?

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    Singing songs like, “Oh Christmas Tree.”

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    Finally I Googled “origin Christmas,”

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    Blending Truth must have seemed so harmless,

    fa la la, la la la, la la la

    but now we only know of Christmas.

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    Do we know the day of Sukkot?

    fa la la, la la la, la la la

    Christ’s birth, death and Resurrection,

    were foreshadowed by these sacred Feasts.

    fa la la la la, la la la la

    From the “The Passover” to “First Fruits”

    The Spotless “Lamb”, “Unleavened” One,

    died, was buried and rose again.

    At “Feast of Weeks” He sent His Spirit.

    Each of these at the appointed time.

    Fa la la la la, la la la la

  • Gary Phillips says:

    On the forest of Egypt its talking about the battle at Carchemish in Syria which was a strong hold that was the land for the Pharaoh Necho who fought Nebuchanezzar II there. Its the trees in that land and those forests verse 23 of Jeremiah is mentioning.

  • Ilse says:

    Funny thing Keith… when I shared some of these teachings with a friend I got the response, “but he’s a Methodist, he doesn’t keep the Sabbath”. I said, “i would bet he does, b/c to understand and teach these treasures in the Torah and not be walking in truth would be hypocrisy.” Don’t judge a book by it’s cover and most importantly: “You will know them by their fruits”. That is, the fruits of God’s spirit, ‘love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control…
    May Yehovah continue to guide and bless you both!!
    Thank you~

    • Stephen says:

      You must be referring to Yehovah’s Holy Spirit? If Eusebius wouldn’t have had ulterior motives for making Emperor Constantine appear as a God (and he did see himself as one) the trinity would not have come into existence. Arius would have put a stop to Athanasius, unfortunately he was poisoned. The trinity had its beginning with the Taoist’s in China, they believed in Earth, Man and Sky. Plato added eternal soul. But! Yehovah told Adam that the day he ate of that tree. He would (surely) DIE. I don’t know about you? but, I am surely not going to call Abba a liar. From dust we came and dust we will retrurn. This would make a whole lot more sense if you were to do a comprehensive study of Love. Yehovah IS LOVE. And if you could comprehend the eternal vastness of Yehovah? You could comprehend the eternal vastness of LOVE. Which brings us to the Messiah! If you did a comprehensive study of the word “Prince” (of peace) in the Tanakh you would find that He is the Prince who is for His people Michael who as John so aptly stated was “with” the Father in the beginning. The 1st born (only direct creation of the Father) (The Son of God)WHOM ALL THINGS were created by! Which verifies Yehovah”s statement that there is “ONE GOD” and NO others. Certainly! Yeshua IS sitting at the Fathers right hand and is now a divine being for the selfless ACT of LOVE and putting His whole (100%) trust in Yehovah. Only a perfect Man can give his life as a Ransom for a perfect Man. An eye for an eye, a life for a life! Its the LAW! But, the TRUTH is WAAAAAY more beautiful than you could possibly imagine! P.S. It was Eusebius who also threw in the 3 1/2 day/year ministry to prove Constsntine’s deity. Wasn’t it? My prayer is that in some small way that this may be of some help. May the LORD of ALL bless.

  • victoria loyd says:

    Keith is right about the Christmas tree,most Christians do have it as an IDOL