Hebrew Voices #64 - A Chinese Christian who Loves Israel

You are listening to Hebrew Voices with Nehemia Gordon. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com.

Peter: I was struggling on one simple question, “Why am I here? What’s the purpose of my life?” So, I’ve been seeking and seeking and nothing satisfied me. Finally, I come to the understanding, if there is a Creator, and if my life is useful for Him, then that is my destiny.

Nehemia: Shalom, this is Nehemia Gordon, and welcome to Hebrew Voices. This episode is a fascinating glimpse into the mind of one of the millions of Chinese Christians who love Israel.

Years ago, Peter Wong of Hong Kong interviewed me in a park on Jerusalem's Emek Refaim Street. The interview was interrupted by an Orthodox Jewish man who heard me talking about Yeshua in His Jewish context. Not knowing anything about me, this man incorrectly assumed I was there to convert Jews to Christianity and started yelling at me and cursing at me. He even called me, "Worse than Hitler.” The Orthodox Jewish man explained that Hitler wanted to destroy the body of the Jews, while Christian missionaries who target Jews wanted to destroy the soul of the Jews.

So, I have literally been, as one Peter 4:14 puts it, “Insulted for the name of Christ,” even though I'm not what Christians would call a believer. In retrospect, it was an LOL moment, but I also understood the man's authentic pain, after centuries of Jewish persecution and suffering in the name of Jesus. You can view that interview at nehemiaswall.com on the page for this podcast episode.

In a way, that experience years ago made it all the more interesting for me to turn the tables on Peter Wong and interview him. As a Chinese Christian, Peter comes from a culture that has no track record of Jewish persecution. I wanted to find out why a Chinese Christian would dedicate a major part of his life to expressing love for the Jewish people and the Land of Israel. Here's my interview with Peter Wong, the Chinese Christian who loves Israel.

Nehemia: Shalom, guys, this is Nehemia Gordon. I am here at the Bible Lands Museum in Jerusalem, and I came here to see this exhibit of ancient artifacts of Jews in exile in Babylon which just went on display at the Bible Lands Museum. And lo and behold, I run into my friend, Peter Wong from Hong Kong. I know he's very busy, and I really appreciate him taking his time. I had to stop him to talk to him about what he is doing here, and some of the things that he does. Shalom.

Peter: Shalom, and thank you Nehemia for interviewing me, and I'm really surprised to meet you here.

Nehemia: And you've actually interviewed me twice. So, now the tables are turned and I'm gonna get to ask the questions. And let me share with the people how I met you. I was in a shop in the Old City, and the owner had seen me there a few times and he says, “I recognize you, what's your name?” I said, “My name is Nehemia.” This man turns around and says, “Are you Nehemia Gordon?” I said, “Yes, what's your name?” “Peter Wong.” I said, “Peter Wong? The man who translated my book into Chinese, ‘A Prayer to Our Father’ and also ‘The Hebrew Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus,’ was named Diamond Wong.” And I said, “Peter Wong, are you the brother of Diamond Wong? How many people could there be in China, in Hong Kong, who are interested in Hebrew stuff? And isn't Wong a name like Smith in America?”

Peter: Yes.

Nehemia: It's a very common name, no connection. So, Peter, what are you doing here at the Bible Lands Museum from Hong Kong?

Peter: Oh, well actually, I feel more home here in Israel, because of my belief. I'm a Christian, and the Rabbi that I follow, Yeshua, He was a Jew. He was here, and He was part of this Judaism in the 1st century. So, that's why I'm here.

Nehemia: What do you call His name in your language?

Peter: Yeso.

Nehemia: Yeso? Did I say that right?

Peter: Yeah.

Nehemia: Okay, I lived in China for a year, but you speak the Cantonese language, and I learned a little bit [Chinese 03:58]. I speak a little bit of Mandarin, very little. So, tell me about that name, Yeshua, and why you don't say it in English, “Jesus” for example? Or do you also use that?

Peter: Well, I also use it to different groups. If they know what I'm talking about when I use the name Yeshua, I use Yeshua. But if they only know the name Jesus, then I use the name Jesus.

Nehemia: Okay, so you're not against the name Jesus. Would you say you're more comfortable with the name Yeshua than you are with Jesus?

Peter: I am more comfortable with the name Yeshua.

Nehemia: Tell the audience why that is.

Peter: Well, to many Chinese, they believe Christianity is from the West. But actually, it's not, it's from here in the Middle East. That's where Jesus was born, and He was here, living as part of the 1st century Judaism. He was invited into a Synagogue as a Rabbi, and he was reading the Torah and the Nevi'im. But for Christians we study the New Testament first. But at that time, to all the disciples of Jesus, they studied the Torah first. Well, they didn't even have a choice, they had no New Testaments to study at the time.

Nehemia: Wait, you mean the 12 disciples of Yeshua, while He was ministering in the Galilee, they weren't reading from the Gospel of Luke?

Peter: Oh, no.

Nehemia: It hadn't been written yet, right?

Peter: Right. There was no Paul, letters to…

Nehemia: Right, okay. Now, if anybody ever gets to Hong Kong, they're gonna want to take you to the International Financial Center, don't go there. The place you need to go is Peter Wong's museum in...Is it the new territories?

Peter: Yes.

Nehemia: This is one of the most amazing places I've been in the world. I've been to museums all over the place with biblical artifacts and all kinds of artifacts, and Peter has an amazing Biblical museum of artifacts. Can you share with the people some of the things you have?

Peter: Oh, sure. Since 2004 we arrived here, and we bought one artifact. We were quite poor, but we bought an oil lamp. And that oil lamp belongs to the period where Jesus was, the 1st century. To me, this is something that I can use to teach, let's say, the parable of the 10th version in the Book of Matthew.

So, when I share with others, I can hold in front of them the oil lamp, and they can see it as a teaching aid. And also, we collect other artifacts that belong to different periods of the books of the Bible for a very simple reason, because many people read the Bible as if it's written for us today. I'm not saying there is nothing for us today. I'm saying, when the book became a book, it was meant for the people at that time.

So, I hope by using the artifacts, to bring today more readers back into history, back into the time where the book was being written. What kind of scenario they were facing, what kind of culture, political background, what kind of geography they were in. We are hoping to bring modern readers into the land without coming here. And hopefully by tasting fortes from our museum, they will come here to Israel and learn.

Nehemia: And you actually bring groups, is it from Hong Kong?

Peter: From Hong Kong, China, Macau.

Nehemia: Oh, also from China and Macau, you bring groups here to Israel, wow. Okay, wonderful. How can people find your website, if there are people in Hong Kong, China or Macau who want to join up with your tour?

Peter: We call ourselves “Hadavar Yeshiva.” Yeah, if you search on the web, you will find that, H-A-D-A-V-A-R.

Nehemia: Say in Cantonese how people can get in contact with you.

Peter: Oh, okay. [Chinese 07:23].

Nehemia: I understood three words, “Hadavar, yeshiva and Facebook.” I actually once traveled with my friend, we traveled three-and-a-half hours from Dallas to a Bible Museum, and it didn't come even close to what you have in your house. So, I hope you appreciate how amazing and blessed that is. And the people of Hong Kong and China, I hope they appreciate what a blessing to have so many Biblical artifacts in such a small place. But you said you have a new facility, or you're building one. Tell me about that.

Peter: Well, the problem is the place we're using is our home. And that is, I think, quite big in Hong Kong standards, but still very small as a museum. So, right now, people need to line up. They wait even one year to come to our place.

Nehemia: Wow, so I'm honored that I got in there twice.

Peter: Oh, you're always welcome. So, last year we got together with the board of my organization…

Nehemia: That’s the Hadavar Yeshiva.

Peter: The Hadavar Yeshiva, and we decided we need a new place. So, after much prayer, and we seek and wait before the Lord, a place available to us quite near our house. So, we have two new buildings, which is also ancient, almost 100 years old.

Nehemia: Wait a minute, I'm sorry. Did you say almost ancient, almost 100 years old?

Peter: Yeah, yeah.

Nehemia: Okay, so, here in Israel there are people living in houses from the 12th century, but I understand in Hong Kong that's ancient. But okay, so you've got two new facilities, two new structures where you're going to be putting some of these artifacts?

Peter: Yes.

Nehemia: And you mentioned to me that there's going to be more artifacts. Can you tell people about that? That's exciting to me.

Peter: Oh, we acquired a collection from President Begin.

Nehemia: President Menachem Begin, okay.

Peter: His private collection. It hasn't been on the market, but because of the people that we know, so we were able to make the purchase of it.

Nehemia: Okay, that really is exciting. So, let's go back to the question of you as a Chinese person. Were you raised as a Christian?

Peter: Not exactly. I studied in Catholic school.

Nehemia: Really?

Peter: But then I didn't really have a faith.

Nehemia: Tell us how you came from not having faith to where you have the best Biblical Museum in East Asia. What happened to you?

Peter: I would say it's a sheer miracle. I was struggling on one simple question. “Why am I here? What's the purpose of my life?” So, I've been seeking and seeking, and nothing satisfied me. Finally, I came to the understanding, if there is a Creator, and if my life is useful for Him, then that is my destiny. So, constantly I asked him, “How can He use us in a greater way?” Eventually, He led us to building a museum.

Nehemia: Wow, okay. And I hope this isn't a controversial question, but I know in Hong Kong they've got - and I don't remember what it's called - but they've got the guy with the big black mustache who's some kind of local deity. So, if you wanted the Creator, how did you know to come to the Bible and not to whatever that God of the Seas is? I don't know, it doesn't matter what he's called. Why did you look to the Middle East and the God of Scripture? Is that because of the Catholic background you knew about it, or did you have an experience? What was it?

Peter: No. Well, I studied very little history when I grew up. But then, when I began to seek the Creator seriously, one thing that struck me was the ancient group of people, the Jewish people, and how they sacrificed themselves.

Nehemia: Okay, I'm sorry, we were interrupted. This reminds me of the time when we actually did an interview and we were interrupted, and that's a great story. We were actually at the Bible Lands Museum, sitting outside in the coffee shop. I believe you were telling me about how you came to Scripture, of all things.

Peter: Yes, because of a very special group of people. Today, we call them Jewish people. And from history, even outside of Bible history, this group of people, they sacrificed themselves so much for the Word of God. The scribes, they literally copied letter by letter to the point of accuracy that is unimaginable. So, there must be something.

So, by their life they sacrificed and by the amount of suffering they received, I believed there must be something, so I sought towards that direction. And then, I also came to know the early church. They were all Jewish people…

Nehemia: Amen, yeah.

Peter: …and how they sacrificed for their faith. So, just by how people are willing to give up even their possessions and their faith, there must be something towards this direction.

Nehemia: That's amazing. So, let me just summarize. You're a Chinese man. Are you Chinese?

Peter: Yes, I am.

Nehemia: Who lives in Hong Kong, who came...Can I say this? You came to Yeshua through the Jews?

Peter: Yes.

Nehemia: Would you say that's fair?

Peter: Yes.

Nehemia: Look, I'm not Christian, I'm not messianic. You know, I look to Yeshua as a historical figure, but you came to your faith through the Jewish people and that brought you to Christianity.

Peter: Correct.

Nehemia: Wow, that's amazing, I didn't know that story. That is amazing. Wow, it's very cool. What is the most exciting artifact you have in your museum?

Peter: Oh, wow.

Nehemia: I know, it's like asking which of your children do you love the most, I understand. People ask me what's my favorite book that I wrote? They're all wonderful.

Peter: Well actually, one piece that we have is not really that old. It's only 100 years old, but it's a Torah scroll.

Nehemia: Is that the one that I read from?

Peter: Yeah.

Nehemia: Oh, I love that.

Peter: That’s it, and because it has been through the Holocaust.

Nehemia: Wow.

Peter: That means a lot. That means the word of God has gone through literally fire, and still exists today.

Nehemia: I'm getting excited. Wow. And it survived. It went through the fire and it survived.

Peter: That’s in the middle of our living room, and every day we look at it. And my wife, my daughter will gather around and read from it.

Nehemia: You guys can read from it?

Peter’s wife: We try to make out some words.

Nehemia: This is his wife here, and she just said they try to make out some words. That is amazing. That is exciting. Correct me if I'm wrong here. So, I think most people in China, or at least in Hong Kong who want to understand Christianity, would probably look to the West.

Peter: Yes, correct.

Nehemia: And what you're saying is, it didn't come from the West, it came from the Middle East, from the Jews. Is that a fair description?

Peter: Yes, it is.

Nehemia: Okay. Let me ask you what might be a really controversial question. So, if you ask most Jews what defines the difference between Christianity and Judaism, there will be a number of things. But one of the things will be that the Torah has been done away with and abolished. They'll say that the Christians have done away with the Torah and we, as Jews, we still want to keep the Torah. How do you view that, the whole question of living according to the commandments? Or is that something that was done away with? What's your view?

Peter: If you are Jewish, even if you come to know Yeshua as your Messiah, I don't think anybody has the right to tell you not to follow the law, because simply, you’ve got a covenant since Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'akov. But for us Gentiles, because in our Bible in the Book of Acts, there was a conference in Jerusalem in chapter 15 that we can also come to become part of God's people, but through a different way.

So, for me, I will continue to study the Torah, because if you know the law, you will know the law-giver. If you understand why He said things like that, what His preferences, we will know how to live a life that is pleasing to Him. And then when I study the Torah, and I studied what Yeshua was teaching here 2000 years ago, He was explaining the Torah, not abolishing it. So, for us, we need really to study and to live a life that is pleasing to Hashem in our life.

Nehemia: That's an interesting perspective. And I've heard all kinds of different perspectives, and I appreciate yours. So, when you teach, do you teach to your congregation, to your people who you speak to in Hong Kong, do you teach them out of the Torah? Because I think you have some teaching about the feasts, don't you, the feasts from the Hebrew Bible?

Peter: Yes, we follow actually, the parasha every week.

Nehemia: You do?

Peter: Yes.

Nehemia: So, you do know that I did this program with Keith Johnson, the Torah Pearls, and now we've done the Prophet Pearls. We went through all the different sections of the Torah and then the Prophets. You're saying in your congregation, you have a congregation there? You have some kind of a fellowship in Hong Kong, you actually go through the parasha, the weekly Torah portion, over the course of a year.

Peter: Yes, week by week.

Nehemia: Week by week. Wow, that is beautiful. And isn't that mentioned in that conference there in Acts? Don't they mention Moses has those who preach them in the Synagogue every week? Isn't that in there?

Peter: Yes, it's mentioned the Gentiles need to follow orders, because the Book of Moses is still being read in all the Synagogues, in all the lands. That means the leader at the time was preparing us Gentiles in a way that is kosher to the Lord, so that we can hear the word of God.

Nehemia: And you're continuing that 2000 years later in the 21st century. It's something that was taught in Jerusalem by these followers of Yeshua. And you're now following that in Hong Kong, and you're preaching Moses every week in the Synagogue, actually reading the words and speaking about them. I'm blessed just to hear that.

You know, I'll get people who come from a Christian background, who will say to me, “I understand now the Hebrew background of Christianity, and so I don't hate Jews anymore.” I've actually had people say that. And it's like, “Wow, so this is your starting point.”

You know, I literally have people who say to me, “We don't use Jew as a verb anymore.” I don't even know if you know what that means, coming from Hong Kong. It's a bad thing. And I'm like, “Okay, so now you've made progress.” But that's where they started, and where you started is completely different. That, I think to me, is the most refreshing part of talking to you, is hearing someone whose first interaction with the Creator of the Universe was seeing, here are these Jewish people who suffered. And there's no anti-Semitism which is part of, sadly, the Western tradition. Well, thanks so much, Peter.

Peter: Thank you.

Nehemia: And thank you for taking the time and talking to me.

Peter: Thank you.

Nehemia: Shalom.

Peter: Shalom.

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